Yeah I don't think the catalog police will throw you in the clink if you put a Supra with a '66 kit.

Now if you had a '64 and did that...well, heads might roll.

Please excuse my extreme ignorance once again, it looks like the Downbeat is similar to a Bebop snare with the exception of the number of lugs? Is that right?

I have always thought this was a Bebop. It is 3"x13"

I purchased my 1964 Downbeat with a 1964 Supraphonic, from the original owner (widow of) who was absolutely certain it was original with the kit. Are you implying that this would be incorrect?

It's not catalog correct. Look at the 64 catalog, a Downbeat snare was offered as standard. The original owner of your kit requested a Supra instead, or his widow was lying/didn't know the whole story.

The downbeats are 4x14 and 8 lugs as opposed to the 3x13 and 6 lugs.

Mike

I have a beautiful 4X14 Pink Champagne shell. Can't find the horizontal lugs ANYWHERE!!!!

"Catalog correct" is a faulty concept. I just don't get why someone would think one vintage drum set is better than another because one matches a photo in a catalog and another doesn't. The outfits themselves were constantly evolving to meet market demands, production necessities, musical trends, etc. Meanwhile the catalogs were only done every couple of years, usually with recycled artwork/photos. The outfits weren't set in stone and therefore the catalogs weren't always "correct" to what Ludwig would send you through the whole time they were considered the "current" catalog.

Catalog correctness seems to be the coin of the realm for a lot of folks though.

However, at some point before the 67 catalog was published in 1966 and after the 64 catalog was published (in 1963) Ludwig decided to make the Supra the standard snare drum included with a Downbeat outfit. Either the guy (or the store) ordered his set after that date, or the guy (or the dealer) simply preferred a metal snare and ordered it that way. No way to ever know (short of having the original order information or invoice) and no actual reason to worry about it (IMO).

Thanks for the clarification. I knew that the catalog had the kit with the downbeat snare, and that special orders happened all the time, and i also knew of the production anomalies that occurred in that timeframe due the the explosion in sales, but didn't know that it was important to the "purist" collectors.

My kit came with every original nut and bolt, all the original hardware, and was completely unmolested. I just didn't know that the supra with it was most certainly an "option".

In defense of catalog correctness, as a collector it gives me a goal to work towards when restoring a vintage kit. I totally understand it was just a template, but without that template, what else do we have?

I appreciate that fact and you're right that the catalogs represent the best reference material available. What annoys me is the second class status that seems to attach itself to sets that don't match up with one of the few cataloged configurations. Ludwig (and the others) sold a lot of sets that were not exactly like those in the catalogs. More often than not these sets were ordered this way by drummers or store owners that, for whatever reason, wanted a set that reflected their personal needs or tastes. Whether that entailed a smaller or larger bass drum or floor tom or a metal snare in place of a wooden one (or vice-versa) or whatever, these outfits were just as valid combinations of instruments as the ones the sales department had put together as a "package deal".

But now, decades later, many seem to be overly concerned with pigeon holing any particular set of drums into one of these six or seven catalog outfits and often seem to end up quite disappointed to find out that their 12/16/20 or 12/14/22 or 13/18/24 (or whatever) set doesn't "fit" any of the approved templates.

It's cool if your set is just like the one pictured in the catalog...but it should be equally cool if that first owner managed to think outside the box and get the set he really wanted.

Not that this has anything to do with showing off downbeat snares.