I have a 12x20 Camco. It's a favorite of mine!

John; First, that kit is amazing! Great job!

Your 'beer can' bass drum is the best description I've seen for the deep drums. And slushy is correct as well. I think they have a ton of projection, but no definitive punch. It's like the sound gets muddled on the long trip from end to end!

Craig

Craig - Sometimes it's hard to find the right words when you're trying to describe a 'sound' in writing. We're not sitting across from each other where I can employ sounds to help describe what I'm talking about. At some point, I just have to trust the common experience we share to provide the framework for understanding. You get what I mean by 'sloppy' or even 'slushy' because you -know- what I'm talking about from your own experience. Otherwise, written words often times limit, mislead and make communicating about something as esoteric as a certain sound, or feel of an instrument, tough to do. I'd rather be sitting across from you and simply go; 'oomph' verbally. It's easier and people get it right away. Finding the right words… mission impossible sometimes. Glad you got my drift! :p

Yeah, something about the trip the air has to make from the batter head to the reso head that makes it 'feel' sloppy, or off somehow. I start to hear/feel it with a 16" depth drum. It's even more pronounced and noticeable in 18"+ bass drums. I just don't like them. They can actually throw me off a bit when I'm playing. When you're 'on the move' any minute change in timing, or feel can really affect execution. Lord knows I don't need any help making mistakes. Things have to happen when you expect them to, or it's train-wreck city! Those deeeeeep, mushy bass drums just mess with my head while I'm playing. I've had to play them using back-line kits and I didn't like it each time. Nice drums too. One set was a modern Premier kit. Loved the toms, hated the 18"x22" beer can of a bass drum. Something about the response.

John

PS - That Premier kit I mentioned was a fusion set-up; 10", 12" rack toms w/hanging 14" floor tom. Why they match a slow, mushy 18"x22" bass drum with a set of fast toms beats the hell out of me. The kit 'felt' out of balance. bip-ada, bip-ada, bip-ada………oomph! It just ain't right.

I agree about the depth of a bass drum shell.

I think your description is right on.

I know a guy who plays a 24"x20" kick drum.

I played and it just felt weird. LoLoLoLo

Beautiful drum.

Just weird. :D

12x18 3 ply w/re-rings RB Gretsch and 1951 12x20 Slingerland. Love them both. The Slingerland is a monster and is currently paired with 9x13 and 16x14 (that's 16" deep) toms from the same period. A mini Big Band kit that really thumps and growls!

Keep on Pl

I have a 1960 12"x22" bass drum I rewraped with some other 60's Slingerland shells. It is a 10 lugger that had three mounts on it I used for my floor tom legs. I have yet to identify what kit it came with. All the bass drums in the Slingerland catalogs listed as 12"x22" are eight lug single centered lug drums. The Tom was a hoop mount I assume. It is deep and punchy. I can hear it well when I perform with it. Here is a before and after pic.

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/1vibes/IMG_3861.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/1vibes/Slingerland/IMG_4161.jpg[/IMG]

Woe! You turnrd that in to a beautiful kit!

And there you are, John! I've never been 'subjected' to a 'beer can' backline that I wasn't able to get out of. Luckily, the malady hasn't struck all that often. I did get some time behind a mid-grade PDP X7 kit with an 18 X 22 though. Some kid had it, nearly completely disassembled it (why? no clue, and he really didn't have a reason as well) and sold it cheap on C/L. I picked it up to flip, but while waiting for a part or two to replace the chrome-stripped-painted-flat-black-tom-mount (another 'huh' moment) I goofed off with it. That is where I noticed the same 'It just ain't right' you did with the Premier kit. Doing any thing that included the bass and toms was just... icky. The end, punchy 'thump' just wasn't there. It was more like a mush filled Sousaphone (hmmm... For my marching band in High School challenged friends, that's the round -ish tuba. Sorry, can't change it to just 'tuba' since it's fun to type Sousaphone). The X7 was a large fusion style with 10, 12, 13, 14, 16 toms. A run down the toms was quite nice, really... until you got to the bass.

Here's a pix of that X7 kit I flipped.

GORGEOUS! Nice save.

Tim - I love sky blue pearl, that kit looks killer. Nice job on those!

Craig - That kit you sold is identical (minus one drum,) to the back-line Premier kit I played. We did a gig at a hotel here in Reading. The band is a full blown Chicago Blues style band (horns, keyboards etc.) and that 18"x22" nearly ruined the night for me. I would base a lot of what I played on my bass drum on whatever the bass player was doing. That mushy response kept throwing my timing off because it felt like it wasn't sounding off when I hit it. I can't describe it, but it just felt like a lag between my hit and the bass drums response. The bass player (who always enjoyed playing with me,) kept turning around all night looking back at me like; 'What's going on?' It was throwing him too! In between sets, I tightened up the heads on the bass drum and it helped, but it didn't cure that slow, mushy feel and sound of the thing. Like you said, no punch!

12" and 14" seem to be an optimal depth for bass drums. At east in terms of punch and response. Some guys swear by their beer-can bass drums, I'm just not one of them.

John