That's prog. Has a faint glimmer of instrumental Yes and ELP in there. It ain't jazz to these ears.

That is some of the most brilliant well spoken commentary on modern "jazz" I have ever read.. It also applies to other genres of music. You are a brilliant man Bill

mlvibes is right, The jazz genre is headed in the wrong direction. Now it sounds like some type of "star Wars" weirdness mess. IMHO true jazz shouldn't be disrespected in the way it is being played (sorry).

Tom

ps: sorry for the rant.

It's the whole "jazz education" thing. Every year a fresh group of graduates goes out into the world to make the next difference in jazz...All of a sudden, it's cold and there are no gigs. But there are so many graduates, that they form their own new continent and they make up their own rules as to how things will work. The result is that you have a plethora of sight-reading mofos who can modulate meters and overlap meters and play as steady as a machine and have flawless technique, etc. They've all won awards from their school and they've all got fantastic-looking resume's -before they even graduate! But none of those achievements have anything to do with engaging an audience. Because the one thing they don't teach in jazz school is "Audiences 101". They don't teach "Club Owners 101". They don't teach "Band Logistics 101".

So the old jazz game -what was once considered something that only the most dedicated "street" musicians could get to....changed. Now, it's all accessible through college. And, as you might imagine, tuition for these prestigious music schools is steep. In many cases...in most cases....only the well-to-do families can put their kids through those programs. Eventually, the art form has been "cleansed" and economically purified. And with that, the old ways disappear and everything that was "cool" about jazz is forgotten. Nerds are now standing in the places where Miles Davis once stood. Oh, well, what do I know? I'm old and grumpy. Stay off my lawn.

/rant

There are some great young jazz drummers out there right now though. Brian Blades, Bill Stewart and Eric Harland come to mind. Real jazz drummers.

Bill Stewart is 45 years old and Brian Blade is probably close to 40! Yes, Harland is a good drummer, but you know what? He's not an innovator like Tony Williams or Elvin Jones was to the art form. And its important to note that these guys came up with some pretty heavy duty front "men", so their education got put on steroids! Once the last few of the old school jazz people are gone, then that's going to be it...except for maybe what some of the Scandinavians and some Europeans are doing. But when there's no one left to copy, the American facet of jazz will be quantified, turned into "plastic" and injection molded like everything else.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but these are topics that I've actually lived and discussed with a few of the real old school players and they pretty much all agree. And even those guys have to give "clinics" in order to remain working. They hate it. They know they're shooting themselves in the foot and yet they have to take the gig. It's sad.

I guess "young" is a relative term. I'm 70. I don't think we should abandon all hope. There is a whole world of inspiration to draw from for young artists. The new music might not be "spang-a=lang", but if it has roots in the blues, has improvisation and is rhythmic, jazz will live. Even if they don't call it jazz. Even if old geezers like me can't hear it.

Amends to both your posts O-LUGS!

Atomicmorganic, I am almost your age, but have waited for the resurgence of the jazz I played when 78- 33 1/3 vinyls were the cutting edge. I,am sorry to say that us older, or should I say VINTAGE players are a dying breed but I for one intend to go out with a bang if you know what I mean.

Tom

The jazz we grew up with and loved is never coming back. What I'm talking about is young people advancing the music that began as New Orleans barrelhouse music. It didn't start with Charlie Parker and I hope it won't end with Coltrane.

Yes, I agree. The music will change. That's inevitable. And it should change and evolve. My gripe is that jazz is achievable now. It used to be something one attained. Now it's something one achieves -like perfect attendance or something. You get a ribbon or a star by your name when you learn how to play "the" Latin beat. But intangible concepts like "cool" and "swing" become lost arts. I don't know how to define those terms. I just know when they are present. Much of it is just simply....intangible. That's the one thing jazz needs to always retain -intangibility. It's not teachable. It's learnable. It's absorbable. But it's not teachable.

Everybody can play now. There's no gigs. Get it?

I'm having flashbacks....sorry. Storm Trooper