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Thoughts about Jazz Sizes and Playing Jazz Last viewed: 5 seconds ago

Posts: 879 Threads: 74

Brian Blades, Bill Stewart, Eric Harland. These guys are playing JAZZ today.

Posted on 14 years ago
#21
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188

From mlvibes

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. There is so much cookie-cutter, mindless, boring, formulaic, been-done-a-million-times jazz out there that it's hurt the music in a lot of ways. Just the same as there's tons upon tons of crap that's trying to be new for the sake of being new, usually odd time signature stuff that doesn't swing. It's no wonder the audience for "jazz" is dwindling year after year. It's either really boring or way too complex with no soul.I don't really believe that in order to be called "jazz" something must be new, or innovative. A New Orleans group playing "When the Saints" is still jazz to me. Joe Henderson's album Lush Life is to me one of the best jazz albums of the past 20 years, and there is certainly nothing innovative or new about it. But it does add another level of greatness and artistic importance when the output is fresh and innovative, or at least somewhat original.Thanks,Bill

yep!..........

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#22
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188

From atomicmorganic

Brian Blades, Bill Stewart, Eric Harland. These guys are playing JAZZ today.

yep!........

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#23
Posts: 4009 Threads: 209

From AZBill

I find this hard to believe. I had a New Classic Ludwig 18" kick, with an EMAD batter and Ludwig reso. I tuned it as low as it would go, without sounding like a paper-bag (it was fine for home practice), and it couldn't come within 10 zip codes of the hugeness of sound of my 24 x 14 Gretsch kick. Please, enlighten me.

The key is to tune it to its resonant point and also not use a lot of muffling. An EMAD is too dead for an 18" kick. I use Evans coated G1's with felt strips and a moleskin pad on mine and I always get compliments about how "huge that little kick sounds". And they are serious. Also, don't bury the beater into the head, let it resonate...let it make the note. Same principle that Bonham had with his 26" kick. Getting the beater as close to center of the batter head helps too....risers are a big help.

Roy Haynes, Elvin Jones, and Art Blakey all used 18" kicks and they had a huge bass drum sound, each of them a little different of course, but huge still. Frank Beard used to use an 18" from time to time. You tell me if you can tell if its a different sound from the 22's he uses now......I'm telling ya its tuning and playing technique. I've played from 18"-28" in different kits of mine over the years. I still have MY sound on all of them. Everyone always said with every size bass I've tried over the years that the bass sounded huge....so I decided to go back to an 18" recently due to the convenience and space considerations. If I sound the same on a 22" or a 28" or a 26"....well you get the idea....

To exemplify my point, somewhere there is a home video clip of Bonham showing his young son Jason how to play something on this real small Ludwig jazz kit (probably a jazzette) and guess what? It still sounds like Bonham, huge drum sound and all! And its on this tiny kit! Its all in the tuning and technique as I stated before.......

Posted on 14 years ago
#24
Posts: 712 Threads: 24

Yep and yep and Jeff Hamilton.

And part of the jazz thing is not caring what anybody thinks.

Posted on 14 years ago
#25
Posts: 392 Threads: 30

From atomicmorganic

Swing and big bands; Big drums.Be bop and small combo jazz; small drums.We need to understand that when bop evolved, there were no amplified instruments. Acoustic piano, acoustic bass and sometimes, but not as a rule, horns. Brushes were used a lot. Drummers were not worried about being heard, they were worried about being too loud. Even the swing bands were much more controlled than in todays music. There were very few if any small drums when swing was king.Jazz is one of those terms which covers a lot of styles and eras of music.Amplification changed everything.

atomicmorganic - Good points! Actually the bop guitarists where playing electrified guitars, but you are right about folks playing at acoustic horn levels when soloing.

Back in the mid-fortys when Bird & Dizzy were first recording their new sounds Barney Kessel with Bird, and Bill De Arango with Dizzy are examples of some of the matured early bop guitarists. Charlie Christian was earlier and among one or two others that introduced the electric guitar to Jazz in 1938 or 39, but he was still mainly a Swing guitarist moving the music forward.

Cool1

“In fact your pedal extremities are a bit obnoxious”. – Fats Waller
Posted on 14 years ago
#26
Posts: 190 Threads: 5

[QUOTE=Ludwig-dude;83416]The key is to tune it to its resonant point and also not use a lot of muffling. An EMAD is too dead for an 18" kick. \

I tried an EMAD on an 18" bass once, and it was the WORST sounding bass drum ever. Sounded like a cardboard box.

Norm

1964 Slingerland Stage Band in Black Diamond Pearl
Posted on 14 years ago
#27
Posts: 4009 Threads: 209

From norman931

I tried an EMAD on an 18" bass once, and it was the WORST sounding bass drum ever. Sounded like a cardboard box.

Like I said, its all in the choice of heads, tuning and technique. I wouldn't even use an EMAD on a 26"...worst bass sound ever. Even a Superkick I is too dead for an 18". The key is coated single ply with a felt strip front and back and tuning it until you find the best sounding resonance point. Make it sound like a drum, not a cardboard box.

Posted on 14 years ago
#28
Posts: 712 Threads: 24

I had a Ludwig 20" that sounded like a canon. It's really all a matter of how it makes you feel. If it feels right, it is right.

Unless it's broken, I have never found a drum that I couldn't get something reasonable out of by tweaking and changing things.

Cymbals on the other hand...

Posted on 14 years ago
#29
Posts: 4009 Threads: 209

Sonny Rollins, Jack DeJohnette in Montreal 1982.....18" kick, huge sound. Need I say more?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWtIpwXg64"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWtIpwXg64[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QJjCmwiUo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QJjCmwiUo[/ame]

Posted on 14 years ago
#30
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