Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 179.36534%

Opinions About Over-thinking Drum Construction Last viewed: 20 seconds ago

Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

From jrfrond

Howie, I agree with you 99%. The other 1% is that, due to the level of minutia, we now have instruments with better consistency and overall build quality. However, as much as I LIKE that aspect, drums and other instruments in general seem to have lost some mojo in the refinement process. Perfection and musicality do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.As far as choosing the right drums for the application, I'm not buying it. I'm 51, and as I was growing up, you chose Ludwig, Slingerland, Gretsch or Rogers, four decidely different flavors of drums (yet ALL are drums) and you just PLAYED 'em! Rock, Jazz, Big Band, Bop..... they ALL worked for ALL styles, because WE made 'em work. It's not the instrument, it's the player.Younger, inexperienced (and older more gullable) players are led to believe that "if you use X-Y-Z, you will play/sound/look/feel so much better". It's the way the industry sells new instruments to dealers at NAMM every year.The funny thing is that people want choices, and yet all want the same thing it seems. Why do you think so many drum, guitar and amp companies are scrambling to issue as much nostalgically-oriented gear as they possibly can?If manufacturers had halted production at Ludwig, Slingerland, Gretsch, Rogers, Zildjian, Paiste, Remo, Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacker, Guild, Marshall and Ampeg, Hammond, Moog and ARP, we would still have great music being made. Perhaps even better than it is now.Newer, more high-tech is not necessarily BETTER, nor is it an accurate indication of progress. The proliferation of minutia and choices just confuses more players than anything else. I mean really, just HOW many versions of a Fender Strat do we REALLY need?

Well, as usual, I can find no fault in what you say, J.R...maybe because I'm 51, too. Sumo Dude

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#31
Loading...

Anyone know where I can get a 58-61 rail consolette for my Slingy Capri Pearl kick drum? It was missing when my friend gave them to me. So were the toms. Yes this was an attempt at humor as well as a serious question.DOH

Gretsch Nitron Glass New Classic 2010 8/10/12/14/16/22
Yamaha Cherry Wood Recording Custom 1987/2005 8/10/12/13/14/16/22
Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl 1966 5x14 S.S./13/16/22
Gretsch wood finish 1959 5x14/13/16/22
Slingerland Radio King Capri Pearl 5x14 Radio King
Gretsch Silver Sparkle Catalina Club Bop 2008 18/14/12/10/5x14
Gretsch Silver Sparkle/Black Stripe Catalina Club Mod kit 22/10/12/16
Posted on 14 years ago
#32
Loading...

I feel the need ... never a good thing ... to comment again. It will most likely generate feelings of discomfort and a general misunderstanding ... and a sacrifice of some small creature that scurry's along the ground ... but, here we go.

From leedybdp

I think that a lot of the posts on this forum and others come from contributors who needlessly obsess over trivial matters about drum construction

Those two words tend to incite members here ... the Vintage Drum Forum ... full of individuals who obsess over catalog perfect specimens and full documentations provided by the Good Dr. et al. This is the place for obsessors. We are comfortable here amidst our fellow obsessors. Fact is, I'm obsessing right now.

From leedybdp

The stark reality (in my opinion) is that a good drummer who knows how to tension any decently made drum will have drums that sound good when properly played, miked, or recorded.

The inference here is that you (as the originator) are a good drummer.

The further inference is that you have skills and can make any quality kit sound good.

The only other logical option is that you are not a good drummer ... thereby lacking the skills to get a good sound out of your quality kits ... which I doubt is your intent.

These are ridiculous statements and totally unnecessary on this forum. We all play and we all enjoy the kit. Skill level is irrelevant to the enjoyment of Vintage Drum History and Discussion ... which (I repeat) is the intent of this forum. You have nothing to prove here and should never EVER feel less than among friends. We take all kinds ... heck, I'm here! That should tell you a thing or two.

From leedybdp

Proper technique applied to decent quality drums is the only formula that is important.

Absolute bunk. There are more variables at play for the construction of compression waves within membranophones ... wow. I'm honestly blown away at that statement. Please, research this topic a bit. It should be an enlightening experience. No joke.

From leedybdp

The minutiae (corrected spelling) of type of wood, number of plies, shell depth, number of lugs, choices of heads and sticks, and brand name are almost insignificant when a drummer is heard in live or recorded performance by the non-drummer.

Well, duh. Consider the audience. Those are non-trained ears. Why would we expect non-drummers to bask in the glow of the warm round woodiness of a Slingerland tom or sincerely appreciate the clear deep resonance of the Rogers tom? The vast majority could care less, so long as the groove doesn't obstruct the tune. Dance, baby. Dance.

From leedybdp

I also like asparagus, but do not like tomatoes.

The makings of a communist! Say it ain't so ... salsa ... spaghetti puttanesca ... chilli ... mediterranean chicken ... ketchup ... indian curry ... V8 ... manhattan clam chowder ... borscht ... marinara ... gazpacho ... bali chicken ... meatloaf ... sundried tomato pesto ... non-white pizza ... jambaylaya ... beef goulash ... ratatouille ... ???

no tomato ... man, that's so hard to deal with. Really harsh.

What Would You Do
Posted on 14 years ago
#33
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
Loading...

well said!

Posted on 14 years ago
#34
Loading...

From RogerSling

I feel the need ... never a good thing ... to comment again. It will most likely generate feelings of discomfort and a general misunderstanding ... and a sacrifice of some small creature that scurry's along the ground ... but, here we go.Those two words tend to incite members here ... the Vintage Drum Forum ... full of individuals who obsess over catalog perfect specimens and full documentations provided by the Good Dr. et al. This is the place for obsessors. We are comfortable here amidst our fellow obsessors. Fact is, I'm obsessing right now.The inference here is that you (as the originator) are a good drummer.The further inference is that you have skills and can make any quality kit sound good.The only other logical option is that you are not a good drummer ... thereby lacking the skills to get a good sound out of your quality kits ... which I doubt is your intent.These are ridiculous statements and totally unnecessary on this forum. We all play and we all enjoy the kit. Skill level is irrelevant to the enjoyment of Vintage Drum History and Discussion ... which (I repeat) is the intent of this forum. You have nothing to prove here and should never EVER feel less than among friends. We take all kinds ... heck, I'm here! That should tell you a thing or two.Absolute bunk. There are more variables at play for the construction of compression waves within membranophones ... wow. I'm honestly blown away at that statement. Please, research this topic a bit. It should be an enlightening experience. No joke.Well, duh. Consider the audience. Those are non-trained ears. Why would we expect non-drummers to bask in the glow of the warm round woodiness of a Slingerland tom or sincerely appreciate the clear deep resonance of the Rogers tom? The vast majority could care less, so long as the groove doesn't obstruct the tune. Dance, baby. Dance.The makings of a communist! Say it ain't so ... salsa ... spaghetti puttanesca ... chilli ... mediterranean chicken ... ketchup ... indian curry ... V8 ... manhattan clam chowder ... borscht ... marinara ... gazpacho ... bali chicken ... meatloaf ... sundried tomato pesto ... non-white pizza ... jambaylaya ... beef goulash ... ratatouille ... ???no tomato ... man, that's so hard to deal with. Really harsh.

Clapping Happy2Mind BlowiEye BallYes SirPartyLoLoLoLo

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 14 years ago
#35
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
Loading...

First, to clarify. I have cooked for many years including six years in the army. I love most tomato products, but cannot stand a raw tomato. I cooked pasta tonight with tomato products. I had ketchup on my hamburger for lunch. I just do not like raw tomatoes.

Now, back to the mundane.......

I apparently raised the hackles of a particular forumite by stating my more casual approach to vintage drum collecting than his. I did not want to mention by name the brands of vintage drums or modern drums that don't feel or sound to me the way I like drums to sound and feel. But, there are some very popular brands for collectors and very popular modern brands for players that do not appeal to me. I have been able to make them sound good for live playing. Good sounding is subjective. We have nothing finite to deal with here.

In response to your questions or assertions about my drumming abilities, here's a concise answer. I was a good drummer according to other musicians for the twenty plus years that I played professionally. I consider my drumming back then to have been pretty good--not great. I did not play or even own drums for many years before getting in to collecting the brands of drums that I used to play or wanted to play. My chops have gone the way of my hairline....away. My abilities to make drums sound good at all volume levels are also pretty good. This talent was honed by many years of playing unamplified drums behind a wall of four Dual Showman amps and a large PA system for vocals. Or, I also played for many wedding receptions and similar gigs at much lower volumes with the other players using much smaller amps. I also was always my own drum tech. That was part of the job for every drummer except for the big name act drummers.

Once again, this time in those annoying all caps: I AM JUST STATING MY OPINIONS, AND ASKING FOR YOURS. I HAVE NO DESIRE TO ARGUE WITH ANYONE.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 14 years ago
#36
Loading...

LeedyBDP I love you man. Let's everyone do a group hug and spread love and joy throughout the world. I think we are all a little sensitive so I apologize for my craziness. Again, if you guys get a chance and like to read bios, Ginger Baker's book is awesome. Keep playing and getting the good sound. Peace...Group Hug

Gretsch Nitron Glass New Classic 2010 8/10/12/14/16/22
Yamaha Cherry Wood Recording Custom 1987/2005 8/10/12/13/14/16/22
Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl 1966 5x14 S.S./13/16/22
Gretsch wood finish 1959 5x14/13/16/22
Slingerland Radio King Capri Pearl 5x14 Radio King
Gretsch Silver Sparkle Catalina Club Bop 2008 18/14/12/10/5x14
Gretsch Silver Sparkle/Black Stripe Catalina Club Mod kit 22/10/12/16
Posted on 14 years ago
#37
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
Loading...

Thanks, Bulldog. I really do appreciate the olive branch being offered. We can sometimes get overwrought through the written word as opposed to cheerful banter when face to face. Anyone want to join us in a rousing chorus of Kumbaya? guitar3

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 14 years ago
#38
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
Loading...

Who said Ludwig, Slingerland Gretch, and Rogers were all to chose from back in the day ??

I`m close enough to fifty and in my early teens chose Sonor,...I still got them,..they`re in great shape,..I have no complaints and only get compliments !! You can`t go wrong with them !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 14 years ago
#39
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
Loading...

I myself side with leedybdp when it comes to modern drums,...My Phonics aren`t nearly as expensive as the SQ2 line but they`re built just as good but sound sooooo much better !! There is way too much heavy metal attached to modern drums and it effects the sound big time !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 14 years ago
#40
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here