Hmmmmm I think you still are mate! We'll talk again after you've had a coffee. You seem to like posting smilies, so heres one for you. Sailing2 hehehe![/QUOTE]

That's actually funny and cute. Lol...Thanks for the chuckle

That's actually funny and cute. Lol...Thanks for the chuckle[/QUOTE]

Hey man, nice to meet you. :)

Thanks for posting pics. Although they are drilled for Camco lugs, badge, mounts and spurs that shell doesn't look like the ones Camco was using that were made by Jasper. It looks more like a Ludwig or Slingerland shell to me. Without seeing it in person and be able to compare it side by side with my Camco shells it makes it quite difficult. I'm not saying they weren't made at the factory as it appears they very well could have been but those shells don't look like Camco Jasper shells. Are those Oaklawn? Chanute? or LA? Chanute would make sense since it was run by the Kustom Company.

. I'm pretty sure that rough Camco that was on ebay a few years ago had re-rings in the bass drum and was definitely a lighter coloured wood inside. Now I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on that one.[/QUOTE]

I was wondering if you were saying that you thought you had seen one of the two shells pictured on e-bay? or if you had seen another on e-bay that did have re-rings? I just wanted to clear that up. If you did see another 24" of the Oaklawn era with re-rings, I would be very interested in seeing that. It would be neat to see one to compare....

Thank You, Ryan

Dolfan, Like I said, I am not looking to fuel a fight here. I want to open up to the fact that there are odd possibilities out there. Both drums were badged Oaklawn, and looked very vintage and very factory. When I originally posted the painted drums I purchased locally, I had very little to base the originality of them on. The person I bought them from had purchased them used, and played them in his 80s-90s hair band locally. They were literally in a basement for years before I purchased them. After a bit of wheeling and dealing I was happy to sell the kit to Slingalud. It wasn't until recently that he shipped me his drums to add to my kit and repair and rebuild to one large kit. When I compared the two, I was very happy to see that the comparisons of the two drums were awesome. Same lug to edge spacing, same leg placement, same bearing edge, and same badge placement. The differences were very subtle. like optional cymbal mount and rear legs on one bass drum, and the two drums were more than a thousand miles from each other. Now there is one more that is even further from us both. I will most likely never be able to compare shells with Dave, but just to see a third one is enough to keep me looking. Three now, and who knows if there are more.

One more thought for you. Slingalud is not looking to sell these drums. And I have already sold mine. So we aren't looking to authenticate for sale purposes. We are trying to authenticate for knowledge purposes. I want the next Camco Newcomer to have somewhere to look when they are wondering if that odd drum they have is possibly real... That was me. I have seen these two, and I am convinced. I would hope that as a respected Camco expert on the forum, you would be open to change, and new knowledge.

Thank You,

Ryan

Ryan,

I don 't consider myself an expert on Camco or George Way by any means. The one psrson i do condider a Camco expert and has seen 100s of examples has never seen one either. It's not that I 'm not open to change and it's not that I haven't seen some oddities but when something so odd pops up like this I'm skeptical as it's so easy to fake drums too. I 've made mistakes in the past by jumping to conclusions so I like to gather as much info as I can.

The pics help a lot in comparing shells and shedding a little bit of light on the subject. The shells appear to be 3 ply shells with a thin inner and outer ply of maple with what looks like a thick piece of poplar as the middle ply. It's a different design than the Jasper 3 ply shell I have with re- rings.

Dolfan,

If you are interested in a few high res pictures I could send them to your e-mail. As long as Slingalud doesn't object. I just want to make note, and compare notes. I found the one locally on Craigslist, and who knows where the next one might be found. It makes me a little sick to think about the simple fact that there could easily have been some of these drums parted out because it is not generally accepted for there to be any Camco's without re-rings. I have no reason to lie, just as much as you have no reason to trust me, but these drums are too Camco, and not enough copy.... I know anything is possible, and I know I can build a convincing copy of most things myself, but I definitely can't fake the age on these.

Thank You,

Ryan

Ryan,

I wasn't implying that you faked them, not at all. Sorry if I gave that impression. When I say fake, I don't mean that they were done today either. They could've been done back in the day. For example I have a George Way snare drum that has all Camco parts on it. It was bought that WAY from a school back in the 70's. The owner that I got the drum from thought that maybe Camco had done this at the factory. It made sense because it had a 701 Super on it meaning early Camco and maybe they were just using up the GW shell. Everything looked legit except they blew it on the tone control. It was drilled too high. Because of the worm drive it needs to be placed very low on the shell but it was drilled up high like a standard tone control. If it weren't for that little mistake I would've bought into the factory idea.

Don't worry about sending me pics. When I get a chance I will take pics of my 4ply and 3ply shells to compare with the pics you posted on here.

Thanks for taking the time of having a respectable disagreement and being civil and making your case with pics! I respect your input

FWIW, I have an English friend who's fairly knowledgeable about Camco and Geo. Way drums. When I was looking for an Aristocrat snare drum and having no luck, DolFan 54's name came up as an authoritative source for info on these drums. And although he didn't reply to my email, I've always taken what he says about Camco and related drums very seriously. If he's taken aback by something, IMO it's with good reason.

That said, one thing I've learned on this forum is that there were a lot of custom orders back in the day, so really, any configuration of drums could be considered legit, and aftermarket alterations by the music store selling the drums were commonplace.

And finally, some people will go way out of their way to fake a drum in order to get big money, so it's not out of line to question the authenticity of these 'one-off' drums.

Stephen

Stephen,

I'm sorry if I didn't respond to an email. What is/ was your question? You can send me a pm here too if you'd rather. You are very correct about custom orders but ordering a shell w/o re-rings is so odd and the fact it's only on the bass drums makes me scratch my head and ask "why?" Back then drummers weren't into how many plies, types of wood, bearing edges, etc like we obsess over today. If they were prototype shells, again I have to wonder why only the bass drums? There are just so many questions to ask but that's also part of the mystery about vintage drums, not everything can be explained which I do have a hard time with.

Steve