I concur!

Mike Curotto

O-LUGS ! I tried to edit my post a couple times to say I was not refering to you in any way, but when I kept trying, I got a message that would not let me edit. I was trying to compliment you for being someone that had the right attitude for this forum. I read my post after submitting it and realized how it could be taken. I apoligize if you took it wrong. I tried to edit.

The same goes for MLVIBES: I was trying to compliment him also.

TOM- Drummer

Thanks Tom, I appreciate that!

Believe it or not, I do see both sides. Vintage drums and cymbals are a passion of mine, and my livelihood, but I always have and always will consider music to be first and foremost. In fact if you knew me, you'd probably think the last thing I did was business. My main instrument is the vibraphone, and I couldn't tell you when my Musser Pro-vibe was made, or how much it's worth! I couldn't care less, I just know that it sounds great, and that I'll never sell it. I have no desire to collect other vibraphones, nor do I care at all about the collectible models. I'm not even sure which ones they are. I love all of the drum and cymbal trivia and history, but I prefer to keep the vibraphone separate from all that...it's just a musical instrument to me, and nothing more.

The main reason I chime in often on these market-related sites is because I want to contribute to the forum, and since I deal with drum prices all day long, I feel it's one of the areas about which I can actually provide some insight. I think this forum IS usually all about the sharing of information as regards history, trivia, details, musicians, etc, you know, the cool, important stuff, why we all got into vintage drums in the first place. But in the end we all pay hard earned money for what we either play, collect, or both, and thus the topics of market value, buying, and selling appear from time to time. Ebay shows up on all of the forums constantly, since it's usually the main place to see tons of cool vintage drums and cymbals on a daily basis. Unfortunately it has also created a "how much is it worth" society, so it's sort of a double-edged sword. Fortunately there are many members that help to bring things back down to Earth, to what's important!

Thanks,

Bill

I have learned a very important lesson about posting on ANY forum. That is Never and I mean never will I submit another post before previewing it first.

TOM -A Drummer

Thanks, Tom. :)

Tom, the thread you are referring to in this post is mine. I started it as a joke, sort of. You see, less than a year ago, I had nothing but a couple of congas. My brother was a great drummer, and for the past 10 years, I have been far, far away from the music scene. My point, and it is exactly that, mine, is that I have a ton of snares. All of them are less than desirable to almost everyone that has responded to this thread, just ask, I am constantly reminded of it. However, I just love these drums, they have a sound all their own, and I contend they sound great, once I or one of the other 6 or 8 guys here that get it have had a chance to work them. As my tag line says, I can afford them, as no one else really wants them, again, ask anyone on this thread if they would be caught in a dark alley playing one of my kits. And by the way, I have two complete kits, one is mine, the other is my little boys, my 9 year old. I have worked extra hard to get some minor amount of respect from the forum members because many think these are but a joke.

My first individual snare purchase is a red Pearl stencil, no name, and it is a truly unique sounding snare, lowest tone I have ever heard from a dedicated snare, and no way it will get a high note. I paid 30.00, including shipping, and had to do some unexpected repairs, because I bought it from a "junk" dealer. The second, a COS Star from like 65-68, in almost new condition, $20.98 including shipping, has a huge range and smoking sound. Looks like a brand new Radio King metal except for the lugs, and I could remedy that by changing them to some Sound King lugs. Those are all snares I have picked up in trades, in junk piles, you name it. I would bet I have less than $200.00 in all 8 of the complete snares you see, and there are 2 more viable shells on the back of the couch. I love drums. I can see the value in certain ones, yet not one person on this thread would even consider playing them, unless they had no other choice. Until they hear a properly prepared one, they will never understand, and you know what? I like it that way. Why? Because, ask Ludwig Dude. You couldn't give him one of these MIJ kits. But he knows I and a few others have a passion for them, and I think we are finally beginning to get to a point were we can agree to disagree on the intrinsic value of the same obsession for collecting drums. I cannot afford to buy vintage American drums. Just not in this time in my life. After the "Great Recovery" that Papa Obama keeps promising maybe, but not before.

And you know what? I may never get into them either, because of this fact, that by that time, they may be far out of reach for my tastes. MIJ is where I live, but I respect American drums and collectors. This drum, however, goes to show the lengths some will go to have just the right one. Now, if you know anyone that has any 3 ply Star or Pearl stencils they can't bring themselves to burn, I will gladly collect them, because they make fantastic gigging kits, with zero chance your Americans will get damaged onstage. And if you lose a $200.00 (including new heads) set of MIJ drums, at least you could get a good portion back by scavenging the parts. And your irreplacable Slingerland/Ludwig/Rogers/Gretsch will be safely at home, and the only people that will know are you...maybe the rest of the band. And if they love the way they resonate, you may never have to take those out again.

It is not about how many, it just happens. And by the way, I am not really in it for the money. I am having a hard time trying to talk myself into trading a really nice Pearl for some other needed gear..just don't want to do it, I love my drums, and you know what? I CAN'T EVEN PLAY THEM, YET! I'm just a hacker, learning with my son, and loving my passion. I know they don't sound the same as American drums, but that is not to say they don't sound good, even great, just different. Like Gretsch and Rogers have unique sounds, so do my thin, 3 ply Star/Pearl drums. But Ludwig and Slingerland, sound similar, when you match them 3 ply to 3 ply and 5 ply to 6 ply. Just my ear, but they are similar, not the same...anyway.

So it is not about the money to some of us, and it is not about "how many can I amass", it just happened. I didn't set out to have 10 snares. But each sounds so different from the next that it is mind boggling.

jonnistix, I know you were joking but the underlying emphasis is to collect as many drums as possible. I see a mix of drums in some photos so I assume all are not mij. I felt this was a good time to use the thread ( in a generic way ) as an example of why the drum on ebay costs so much. Heck, I,am looking for a Oyster Black Pearl snare but I will not pay for an overpriced one.

I stand by my comments in my post as it is just my opinions backed up with experience. I will admit I,ve never had the opportunity to play a mij set of drums and maybe I should but when I needed to create a different sound I loosened mufflers and took pillows out of the bass and retuned the drums.

I respect you for your passion to collect mij drums and there is a place for all aspects of vintage drums on this forum thats what is unique about it. But there is also room for dissent if done in a manner that is not personnel. You have a passion for mij drums. Maybe they sound different I don,t know, so for the experience I am going to try to aquire a set, after all the first kit I could afford were 60s premires and they sounded ok but didn't stand up to the rock and roll I was playing in the 60s & 70s.

TOM - A Drummer

Congratulations.... glad you found what you wanted !!

Kev

Man what a great story, please keep us posted, I hope this drum sounds so good that your all smiles!band3

I apologize for my tone, Tom, it was not meant to sound as an attack. I, too respect everyone's desire and right to collect. I guess I actually missed my own point, in that I did not get all the way there. My point was, I never even had the intension to begin a collection of drums, other than enough for my son and I to enjoy as a father-son bonding project. Before July of 2009, I really had no idea there was so much to the MIJ market as there is, and certainly never did I expect to become an historian of such a ridiculous (to some) instrument.

I knew there was much to trhe American vintage stuff as mybrother had taught me some of it. However, this was more than 10 years ago, he died in 1999. So, for 10 years, I was virtually blind to any sort of differences in anything other than American. To my surprise, there is a wealth of great MIJ drums, and I can afford to collect them, and have become somewhat of an international "authority" if you will, on these things, much to the chagrin of some, and the amazement and amusement of others. Anyway....

Ludwig Drummer, Good Luck with your acquisition, I truly hope this is the one, and it more than meets your expectations.