Check out my book and you will see 5 of the 8 known Triumphals...as far as cataloged 10 lug Triumphals there are 3 known, two are 5x14 Super-Ludwigs and one is a 5x15 Super-Ludwig.

Mike Curotto

Mike Curotto - Thank you for your reply! Actually I did see the “Triumphals” in your BEAUTIFUL book and they are the ones that got me curious. For clearification I used the term “Catalogue Matched” meaning “Stock” based on the Ludwig catalogues that mention “Triumphals” (as opposed to "Custom Ordered" drums) . Below is the paragraph from my first post where I described another question I had about the older models actually being custom orders from the years before Ludwig offered the catalogue finish known as Triumphal.

I apologize for not being clear. There is the possobility that your older drums are rarer one of a kind "Custum Orders" and the three Super-Ludwigs are stock catalogue matched Triumphals. (Max Manne's was a "Custom Order", unless we here in the drum collecting world have stretched the name Triumphal to include the older models).

From my earlier post:

"So in the drum collecting world, is the “Triumphal” finish name stretched to include specially engraved “Custom Ordered” drums from years earlier than 1925? If so, it looks like the catalogue offered “Triumphals” (as depicted and described in catalogues 1926 through 1928 and including the special 1929 offer, and having 10 lugs no matter what diameter size.) are somewhat rarer than one might think. Of course that would also mean those beautiful pre-1925 drums with 8 or 6 lugs (Now referred to as Triumphals) would likely be one of a kind “special ordered” drums and maybe considered even rarer too. Just a thought."

:)

A little follow up. Lately I’m curious as to why a serious collector of early Ludwig snares would not be able to get a better date of a so called “1920s” Triumphal. The catalogues starting in 1926 mention the “Triumphal” as just a finish (not a model yet and all real gold plate and engraved) as part of the “Ornamental Models” series and then in 1927 as “Ornamental Finishes”. In both the 1926 &1927 catalogues these snares were depicted with the P338 throwoff and were part of the “DeLuxe Model” pages. In the 27 catalogue Ludwig began to refer to this finish on a DeLuxe as the “Triumphal Model”. Interestingly by 1928 you could order the “Triumphal Model” (The Deluxe with all gold plating and engraving) and the “Super Ludwig” (it was depicted with the improved throwoff not the P338) was now also offered with the Triumphal finish option. So based on the catalogues there were two snares that could have the beautiful all real gold finish but the DeLuxe version was named the “Triumphal Model” not the Super-Ludwig model version. In 1929 the DeLuxe was still known as the “Triumphal Model” and depicted with the P338 throwoff but things seemed to be changing at Ludwig as Conn came in, so by 1930 the “Super Sensitive” model was introduced and had special finishes offered (I’m only focusing on the 1920s in this post). It appears that in the 1920s that Ludwig snares with Triumphal finishes would be from about 1926 through 1929 with the DeLuxe model version being the actual Ludwig “Triumphal Model” at that time. Hopefully we can narrow down the dates of the Triumphals a little better in the future!

Another way to look at it. Ludwig stopped offering any Triumphal Model (DeLuxe with P338 strainer) and Triumphal Finish (Super-Ludwig with new strainer) snare drums in their catalogue after 1929. It appears that in the 29 catalogue that although the Triumphal Model (DeLuxe with P338) was still available, the Super-Ludwig then offered separate optional finishing of real “All Gold Plated” for $100.00 and for an up-charge of $45.00 you could get “Engraving and Burnishing” also, but no mention of the “Triumphal Finish” anymore.

Ludwig’s true Triumphal Model was described in their catalogues for 1927, 1928 and 1929 and this model was depicted as a Ludwig DeLuxe with the P338 strainer. The 1926 Deluxe with the “Ornamental Finish” known as “Triumphal” would probably look exactly like their actual Triumphal Model so this drum today would probably have to be counted as a Triumphal Model, unless there was a way to distinguish it from the standard 27, 28 and 29s. Maybe engraving differences might help differentiate the 26.

Ludwig’s Triumphal Finish option offered for the Super-Ludwig was offered in their 1927, 1928 and 1929 catalogues, but remember these were “optional finish” drums and not true catalogue Triumphal Models.

The new current Triumphal reissue doesn’t have the P338 strainer so it is maybe more like the vintage Super-Ludwig (newer strainer with a longer lever) with the optional finish than the true 1927 thru 1929 Triumphal Model as Ludwig used to call them. I know there are other differences in the new reissue but that's fine by me (It's an outstanding drum to say the least!).