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Ludwig Classic configuration 20"-12"-16"

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Hi,

i have a question about a Ludwig Classic set i got offered to buy.

The strange thing (perhaps it's only strange to me) is, that the configuration is the following:

- Bassdrum 20x14

- Tom 12x8

- Floor Tom 16x16 !!!

My question is:

why is there a floor tom in that size?? Does that mean, that at the time there was another 14" floor tom or a 13" tom or does it mean, that the floor tom belonged to another drumset?

The serial number of the bassdrum is 260xxx, the tom 429xxx and on the floor tom is a badge without serial number (all Keystone badges).

Thanks for the replies!!

Posted on 8 years ago
#1
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Based on the serial numbers (and lack thereof) I'd guess that this set was pieced together. It could have been done by a dealer and sold all together as a new set although given the span of the numbers that's a bit of a stretch.

Ludwig didn't have a 12/16/20 catalog set (other companies like Rogers did) but you could easily order any size combination you liked. The floor tom is the oldest drum here and possibly the last one added to the set.

All this doesn't make the set any less valid as a drum set. I'm sure they can sound great and if they match each other in color and look and sound good they would be worth snagging if the price is right. All Ludwig drums of that era were the same regardless of what catalog set they did (or didn't) come as part of.

Posted on 8 years ago
#2
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As always, some pictures would help to give a better opinion, but it seems K.O. has given you the best we could offer without them.

Posted on 8 years ago
#3
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Thank you K.O. for your detailed reply!! Helped me a lot!

The price would be 2.000 € (= 2.100$). Tomorrow I can upload some pictures, I would be interested in your opinion as there are some defects I can not evaluate properly.

Thank you again!!

Posted on 8 years ago
#4
Posts: 771 Threads: 132
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There also might have been a 13 that got lost along the way.

Keep fixing them up...
Posted on 8 years ago
#5
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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From drumfx

There also might have been a 13 that got lost along the way.

True. I guess the type of tom holder on the bass might indicate whether there was ever a second small tom. A center post type of mount would indicate that there may have once been a 13", while if there is a rail type mount then probably not.

12/13/16/20 still wouldn't be one of the cataloged sets but, again, that's not that critical to whether this can be a good set of drums.

The price mentioned above seems mighty high but I have no idea of what the going rate would be in the potential buyer's neck of the woods or how "rare" a Ludwig set might be there.

Post some good pictures and we can see what you're dealing with.

Posted on 8 years ago
#6
Posts: 509 Threads: 42
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Got to say, 12/16/20 is my favorite gigging sizes. Great separation. And they'll fit almost any giggled like to play

Posted on 8 years ago
#7
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Hey, thank you for your replies!

Here are some pictures of the kit.

As I have no experience with vintage drums, I would like to ask you for your opinion about the overall condition. And if it's worth the price of 2.000€ (2.100$)?

The bassdrum and the 12" tom sound awesome, on the floor tom the rim and the resohead is missing (the rim is existing somewhere), so I can't really test it. I used the bassdrum the last 3 days in the studio to record a country-album, it sounded really, really great!

I noticed the following things on the kit:

- Some damages on the rim of the bassdrum

- on the inside of the floor tom is a slighly crack in the shell

- on the bearing edge of the floor tom is also a crack

- the bassdrum is not quite round in the area where the wraps go together. Perhaps it is normal with wraps?

But otherwise it looks very well preserved.

Thanks for your help!

Posted on 8 years ago
#8
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The price may be up a bit because of the oyster black finish, which is pretty popular. However, since there is no indication that its chief user, Ringo Starr, ever had a 20, 12, 16 configuration, the value would be a little lower than it might be in a 20, 12, 14 or 22, 13, 16 configuration.

On the other hand, how many oyster black sets are likely to be found in Europe in any configuration? Given the rail mount, it does seem to have been a three piece kit from day one. The ply separation and shape issues are fairly common in my experience for Ludwigs of that era and not too big a deal. There does appear to be a Rogers muffler on the small tom based on the knob type and the flat plate with two bolts. From the inside though, it doesn't have Rogers components if that is the same muffler.

The crack looks to be the result of the floor tom leg taking a hit - maybe from the drum falling over - but probably from the drum being dropped on its side. Doesn't look too bad though.

I'm going to say that if you are only getting the bass, tom and floor tom, the price seems a bit high. However, I don't have a great sense of prices in Europe. In the US, it might bring $1000 to $1500 depending on the close-up details, but a buyer also has to be prepared to find some of the missing parts. I think there has been a 20, 13, 16 in oyster black recently either on eBay or Reverb for about $2250, but seems not to be selling at that price.

Good luck with your deliberations!

Posted on 8 years ago
#9
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Hello Manuelito!

Like K.O. mention above, regarding the description of the serial numbers, this outfit wasn't born together (from pre-serial to 429xxx you have a gap of 6 years at least ... too much even for the Ludwig "policy"! LoLoLoLo)

Hence, that's why sizes.

The price -outside US market- depends on where you are ... Are you from Spain?

Tough to say something accurate, but even with those "issues" (split re-rings, small crack, etc) that B.O.P. wrap, make those kits highly desirable, and prices go up much more over same outfit with "standar" finishes (Ringo coeficient L.O.L.)

On the other hand, the wrap looks very clean and even between each piece (at least as shown).

Hope it helps, tell us how history goes...

Saludos amigo.


Ludwig '67 Classic B.D.P.
Ludwig '79 Classic Pro-beat
C. A. F. '72 New Sonic "The Argentinean Ludwig"
A bunch of Ludwig snares..... + Dyna & P.Tone.

and always trying to recover some orphan drums!!
Posted on 8 years ago
#10
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