I will... but, I will say this; back in March 2015 when, I contacted Steve concerning my 1969 walnut finish Gretsch RB bop kit he was amazingly surprised they existed so, I really don't think he would be that much help.

And I will not quote what he said... so yes, I'm probably the only one trying to find supporting documents on natural maple (1960 to 1969) RB finish kits so any help from anyone would be appreciated. As you can see this subject is very near and dear to me too but has also been totally frustrating too.

My understanding of the big american drum companies in the 40s / 50s / 60s was that you could special order anything you could think up. There are many examples of marching bands / colleges having drums finished in their organization's colours. Almost all of them never appeared in a catalogue. Chrome, nickel, brass, you could have any part plated with any material you wanted. These companies were more than willing to make you anything within their capabilities, so long as you had the cash.

THE AMOUNT OF "FACTORY ORIGINAL" DRUMS THAT NEVER APPEARED IN A CATALOGUE WOULD FILL THE GRAND CANYON.

[QUOTE=OddBall;374323]THe best I can do is show his kit, and him talking about it. If the kit had it`s wrap removed, he would certainly mention it. I have no doubt about that.

" People often write me and say "Charlie Watts's kit is natural maple". I manage his collection for him so I know that kit well, and that set was a stripped set that was refinished and it was that way when he bought it. He played on one of Ron Wood's solo albums and Ron had this kit brought in for the session from a backline guy. Charlie liked the kit and bought it, but that set is by no means the original finish."

Steve

Steve Maxwell

www.maxwelldrums.com

630-865-6849 cell (feel free to call)

Yes, maybe so... but, I beg you or anybody here to PLEASE show me (with proof, etc) of just one "special order" Gretsch (1960 to 1969) RB natural maple kit that is "genuine factory" and I will shout-up about this once in for all.

However my fear is a "factory genuine special order RB kit in natural maple" will never show-up... so, I will NOT rest until, I see one... so with that statement and I'm sure you can guess, I'm a true Gretsch RB nut who would probably spend my life savings on such a RB kit if given the opportunity to buy one!

So if anybody wants to make some fast money... sell me a REAL one that is fully factory documented, etc... with this it's like Pawn Shop Wars on T.V.... they surly can't be George Washington wooden teeth unless you have proof.

I stripped and re-finished my floors and removed zero wrap.

In my line of work, re-finished is removing the finish and replacing it with the same or different color/shades.

Charlie`s kit has zero knots or blemishes, this is indicating final finish. I have no reason to doubt Steve, He deals with the kit. However, if wrap was removed, the indications are there. If wrap was removed and veneer added, the ply thickness will change from three to four. If wrap was removed and no veneer added, the thickness still changes. If wrap was removed and wrap added, it`s very tricky from there. The inside of the badge grommet tells the story.

I need to see a close up of the grommet inside. Can Steve provide that ?

No grommets on RB Gretsch other than snare drums. The badges are tacked on toms. Bass drums had a friction fit grommet that was not crimped on the inside.

It's been pretty common knowledge in drum circles that Charlie's set was a stripped set. Gretsch shells were bought from Jasper wood products already made so the shells are the same diameter whether they were wrapped or not.

Not to beat a dead horse but I still can't understand how a factory advertisement featuring an endorsing artist and his natural maple set fails to reach the bar of proving that they did, in fact, exist. Exceedingly rare, yes, perhaps even no longer in existence, very possible, but the ad should be considered sufficient proof that at least one set was made.

I noticed the jasper shell when I saw the horizontal seam. Stripped does not mean wrap removed. The thickness of a natural finish and wrap finish will be the same but the natural finish will have thicker ply layers to accomplish that.

SONOR does not count the wrap as a ply. A wrapped nine ply has nine plies plus wrap, a nine ply natural finish has nine plies with one or more ply layers thicker than the others, both are the same final thickness. Things like mount screws will go deeper into the casing or not as far or the length of the grommet are indicators of what has been done.

K.O. yes & no...

The factory advertisement you posted a few months ago helps somewhat...

But unfortunately in the world of research that advertisement only adds fuel to the fire to it's overwhelming Area 51 secrecy of the natural maple (1960 to 1969) RB kit folklore... and now we are down to they (Gretsch) made at least one kit now... again if they did where is it now? Nobody living that I know of has ever seen one other then in pictures which again we can't establish if it "factory genuine" or not until we gain full access to the details.

So it's stripped until further notice...

Guys it's my hopes that day a big-time super Gretsch collector will read this thread and will get mad and will post his "one and only" just to shout me the hell up about this... then sell it to me!

"So seriously, I don't want to cause a huge uprising over this mystery but I'm starting to believe more and more a natural maple RB kit could have been possible." Osahead2 3/25/2016

Eye Ball

Yep, that's what I said... the Master has spoken... I based that clipped statement/quote from another topic that talked about Gretsch RB duco kits... so yeah, I do feel they might have been possible... but... still too early to officially say for sure.