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1961 Downbeat kit question Last viewed: 18 hours ago

Posts: 4 Threads: 2

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rustydrumsuk/sets/72157642684086704/

Just bought this Downbeat kit, it's in great original condition (shame some wally cut a hole in the original front bass drum head!), really clean wrap, just needs a bit of polishing up.

I was expecting all brass hoops but the small tom appears to have steel ones.

My question is: When were the earliest steel hoops that Ludwig put out? I know it was around 65 that most hoops were steel, but is it possible these hoops could be original to the drum?

Posted on 9 years ago
#1
Posts: 3089 Threads: 326

I don't know the answer to your question, but my recollection was that only the snare drums had brass hoops. I always find it interesting that they used Resicote inside the toms and not the bass drums of that era.

Posted on 9 years ago
#2
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

I would expect a '61 drum to have brass hoops. The earliest steel hoops that i have run across were on two different '64 Pioneers. One was chrome over steel and the other was nickel over steel. I have run across many 65's with one of each brass and steel. And have also seen '66 drums with both having brass.

Nice kit! Thats a great find.

Mike

Posted on 9 years ago
#3
Posts: 2023 Threads: 47

Absolutely stunning and you even have the rail mount with the top-access mounting screws - very handy for travel.

Congrats!

Mitch

Posted on 9 years ago
#4
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

Very nice!

If it makes you feel any better about the hole in the bass drum head I don't think the logo is original. Those were typically a wet slide decal in that era. The decal probably chipped off or turned yellow so a previous owner painted it on instead. Probably a previous owner mixed up the hoops with one from another set at some point and that's why you have a steel ones. It's only been in relatively recent years that folks even realized (or cared) that hoops were brass and then went to steel. As Mike points out even Ludwig would ship out drums with both types (although not in 1961).

Posted on 9 years ago
#5
Posts: 1296 Threads: 208

Remo had a low cost line of heads called something like Playon. The close up of the BD logo looks like the plastic material they used.

Never play it the same way once.
Posted on 9 years ago
#6
Guest

From orangemi

Remo had a low cost line of heads called something like Playon. The close up of the BD logo looks like the plastic material they used.

Yes that reso head on the bass drum does have the look of the late 1950s Playon heads. They have a sort of linear pattern running through them rather than the uniform texture we're used to once the Weathermaster series came in.

Playon is the name of the first generation of Ludwig plastic heads according to Paul Schmidt, History of the Ludwig Drum Company. Reference (not sure if this link will work for others):

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=paQAPZqShHIC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=playon+plastic+heads&source=bl&ots=BhFXXKx7yw&sig=ULXHjqDcLREaXAyonPfUAxciblQ&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=playon%20plastic%20heads&f=false

And from Rob Cook's The Ludwig Drum Book p190:

Luwdig's first mylar heads, the "Playon" series, appeared in only one catalog, 1959. The next catalog (1961) introduced the second generation Weathermaster

Where did you get your info that they they were Remo or a low cost line? I'm always writing updates into my reference books as new info comes to hand.

Posted on 9 years ago
#7
Posts: 135 Threads: 14

My '59 Auditorium snare, '64 Downbeat kit, and '64 Supraphonic all have brass based (chrome or nickel over brass) hoops. My '64 Acrolite has a steel top and brass bottom hoop, indicative of the transition period from brass to steel in late '64 to early '65. I am fairly confident all of yours should be brass hoops.

1964 Ludwig Downbeat Black Diamond Pearl (12,13,14,16,20)
1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel "Bop" (12,14,18)
1998 Ayotte "Ray Era" Wood Hoop Copper Sparkle (10,12,14,16,20)
Posted on 9 years ago
#8
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

Playon Plastic heads were early ones from WFL/Ludwig. They had that almost textile like pattern visible in the plastic. Whether Remo used the same name I do not know but Ludwig did make their own plastic heads and that was the brand name they used.

My first snare drum (1970) was a 1957 WFL and it still had its original Playon head. I still have it.

Posted on 9 years ago
#9
Posts: 4 Threads: 2

Yep, the head is the early texture pattern type but has little stickers that say Weather Master on them, so Ludwig at some point started calling the Playon heads Weather Master before they actually changed the heads!

The logo is actually a transfer and someone has filled in with a marker pen where parts of it have worn off.

If anyone's got one they don't want I'd be interested in buying it!

Oh, and I'll be after a couple of 12 inch brass hoops, anyone?!

Posted on 9 years ago
#10
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