Calfskin,

If I follow you correctly you are saying that when one uses an internal tension muffler like a Pratt muffler, by depressing the head for a strike and then leaving the beater depressed, you are effectively pressing against the muffler thus keeping the head muffled. If you strike it open the head would still vibrate against the muffler but not to the degree of being held there by the pedal beater thus creating a more open tone.

Now that makes sense to me. I am not sure I like the idea, but I believe I follow it and sure would like to try a drum or two or three that had one installed.

By the way, if anyone is looking for a more modern recorded version of that kick sound, check out "New Mistake" on the Jellyfish album Spilt Milk. Monster kick drum sound and a very interesting band. They are what you would get if you blended the Beatles, Queen, Led Zepplin, and possibly a hint of ELO with the sense of humor of Frank Zappa. All the while the drummer is singing lead while playing standing up. Worth a listen.

That was in 1969. The desire to Produce recordings and tailor them had arrived, especially with selling bands ,like the Stones and ------ The Beatles were working on Abbey Road at the time. There is no doubt that a lot of bands and labels were not so particular about production and the fine points of sound recording but I can't see that the Stones fall into this category. I also think Charlie Watts was a bit of a perfectionist. He's not exactly a punk drummer. He also must have picked up a lot of fine points of technique as a student of Jazz drumming.

[QUOTE=tnsquint;212497]Calfskin,

If I follow you correctly you are saying that when one uses an internal tension muffler like a Pratt muffler, by depressing the head for a strike and then leaving the beater depressed, you are effectively pressing against the muffler thus keeping the head muffled. If you strike it open the head would still vibrate against the muffler but not to the degree of being held there by the pedal beater thus creating a more open tone.

That's pretty much it but because the muffler can be adjusted to sit just ever so slightly off of the head or more off the head ,you can strike with a completely open(unmuffled) tone, not just a partially unmuffled tone( but you can completely muffle the note if you like). They don't work so well with some modern heads that don't have as much give----double ply ,or extremely taut heads. I find the device peaks in performance with calf or goat heads and anything up to and including Ambassadors or the like.

as an aside---if you listen to the live Hyde Park recording; it doesn't sound like he is using the same type of pedal strokes or muffling on that one( he is playing a Gretsch---which might have had that sort of muffler) but part of the problem there, is the bass note overlays the bass drum note and it is open so it makes the bass drum sound open too.if you persist in listening, there are some notes in the recording, however , where you can still hear that he is closing that 3rd beat. there is no doubt that, that, can partially be obtained by holding back the batter head with the beater but it is always imperfect. can't really say what is happening there but Mr. Watts appears to be trying to keep the essence of the original groove.

I think there is certainly a lot of truth to that and, in reality, the same is true of playing. We spend hours trying to figure out what some guy did kind off the top of his head when he was in the studio and he may not even know. It was much easier to create in the first place than replicate after the fact.

Having said that, there is a lot to be learned in the art of tuning and even choosing drums by following through with exercises such as this. I find it quite challenging and rewarding to be able to listen to a drum and just know what is right or wrong with it without going through a bunch of rote routines hoping to improve a sound. I would like to someday get to the point where Brewkowski could ask me how to get that "Honky Tonk Woman" kick drum sound and I could simply tell him after listening for 20 seconds what kind of drum I would suggest, what heads, beater, and what tuning methods would be most appropriate. And, of course, what type of room you would need. Now that may be an unattainable goal based on the actual variables, but I think one could get pretty darn good at this if he so chooses.

> I am assuming you use one of the provided muffling rings on the EMAD.

Yep, just the one basic/outside ring. I don't use any of the inner rings they provide.

> We should also be considering the beater. Odds are his was hard felt.

Yep, the old-school felt beater on my Speed King. I don't know what Charlie used.

> Then, what kind of beater pad if any?

It's one of those self-adhesive Nylon fabric dots that came with the EMAD head. I like the fabric dot more than the plastic ones, because the plastic ones are all 'attack.' They sound 'click-y' to me. The fabric one gives me just the right amount of attack with out that loud plastic slap.

I use the 'pull-technique' on the bass drum only when I want it. I don't play that way all the time. I'm heel/toe on the pedal so the beater ends up against the head depending on what I'm playing. Be nice to have all the details of how Charlie played it.

Anybody have Charlie's number?

John

Maxwell does..

So now all we have to do is, to figure out how to rip-off Steve Maxwell's Smart-phone! DOH LOL

John

I think he got it from Don Adams, It's in his shoe!