Vinny, are you collecting or buying to resell? It sounds like you are more sore about losing out on a low price more than the kit. If someone else wants it and is willing to pay more, the seller has every right to do what he wants. I agree that it's pretty crappy for a seller to change their price after you agree upon it, but some people are like that. I personally have made some rather good finds lately with cymbals on CL, but I've also lost out on others.

I don't agree that the market is drying up, there's just more folks out there looking. I think as you stated in posts before that you are not from the U.S., but from Chile, so I would think that you would be more used to bartering, as most countries OTHER than the U.S. are more per prominent to this type of negotiating. I think the current economy now makes bartering and/or wanting the highest price the norm.

If you want to buy to resell, be prepared to pay more. If you buy to collect, no price is too high if you want it bad enough.

This is an interesting thread and the comments here range from logical to passionate. I think as buyers we often expect too much from sellers, specifically on CL. Many of those items are just things people are moving to avoid throwing out. A case in point would be the $40 tom in Tennessee. While that drum meant something importnat to our VDF friend, to the seller, it was probably just an item that needed to go away for the cost of half of a tank of gas. Probably not very high on their radar. By the time you have the husband and wife both involved there is bound to be miscommunication.

Most of these people are not professional resellers. (If they were, they should be charging sales tax when applicable). For many people, cash in hand is better than turning away someone on the hope that the guy on the phone earlier will honor his word. For my part, I try very hard to keep track of who called first, who said what and then honoring my word. Interestingly enough that can be difficult with people leaving limited information in messages. Again, this is not a full time job for most people.

As to the Christian way to do things, my Bible says "simply let your yes be a yes and your no be a no.". Not so hard really. Offer me an extra Benjamin after I have already agreed to a deal and I say no. My fault for not asking enough. One thing I at least try to do is get a pending deal with a buyer. Basically I ask him to agree that he/she will purchase at the agreed price pending inspection. I don't want a buyer to feel obligated once they see the item, but I am not running a showroom either.

Lastly, there seems to be a lot of antagonism at the thought that one might purchase an item at a low price with the plan to sell it at a higher price. I understand that this is a passion for us, but for some, they have turned their passion into a career, or at least supplemental income. Instead of vilifying them, let's consider applauding someone who found something they loved to do and figured out how to get paid doing it. That is the beautiful part of capitalism. Personnally I say congratulations to all of you who do so. For those of you who don't agree, just buy somewhere else but please do no berate the entrepreneurial spirit. ...on the other hand there is Pooder, but that just comes with the territory. As always, vote with your dollars.

Upon further review, I may have been a bit harsh with Vinnie here, in particular. I chose this thread to vent a little, and picked the wrong one as he is a very active member on here, and not always just with the buying or selling, but a real member who participates, with an impeccable reputation. I do not want my comments to dissuade anybody from dealing with him, as I have no proof of anything to the negative, have never heard anything to the negative (and they would come out here screaming if there was.....) and did not want to imply that.

My overall frustration is the overall emphasis on the buying/selling aspect that has dominated the site recently. I guess at the end of the day, there will never be one without the other, or the former wouldn't have much to talk about if the latter didn't provide the goods.

Toodles

Drumhack Excitedx-mas3Sailing2Mister TCool Dude

BBK: Im not sore about loosing a drum set (it wasn't a Holiday Red wine ripple or something like that). I'm sore about driving an hour without having the chance to be advised by the seller that the drums were going to someone else...I really think that's the least you could expect from a decent person. I collect and also resell. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I have a formal drums business and pay taxes out of it. I'm not sure, but I kinda sense some type of resentment on your comments. I don't strip down a perfectly fine drum, I don't mix match or change badges. As a matter of fact, I invite you to check my feedback in this very forum and you'll see what other member think about my service. It seems like some guys agree with the "I'll do anything for a buck" and some others just don't. I wouldn't offer more money to a seller if he tells me that he already has a buyer. But that's me. Now, about the statement that depends on your country of origin what you are supposed to expect on a negotiation. I find that offending, ridiculous and sad, really. But it's good to learn from everything in life specially now, that after 17 years I've been granted the nationalization and I can proudly call myself an AMERICAN. God bless you.

Multiple levels to reply and I'll save the offensive one for last.

Then maybe you should not make a trip or call the seller before you go out there. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail as a friend of mine says. Please note that I did say it was a crappy thing for the seller to do.

No resentment, just expressing an opinion. I have a very nice collection and I have no reason to resent you, it just seems to me that you are whining a bit about not being able to find what you could 4-5 years ago for the same prices.

[COLOR="Black"]This I find most offensive.[/COLOR] Number one, proven fact that in most European and other countries that barter, because of the fact that most incomes are very precious, is an accepted fact. As well as negotiations for lower prices. I say this as I have many friends and cousins that have either lived or been raised in countries other than the U.S. Secondly, now I've seen that you've erased the word racist that was previously on your post. I didn't have a chance to save it, but I saw it and I have it on my iPad and took a photo of it. Perhaps you'd like to see it? Know this, my to this day best friend for over 30 plus years is 2nd generation American with a Spanish surname, who works for Customs protecting our borders. I grew up with him, as well as my other best friend growing up in my 20's who most people might call "African-American", and might I mention I played in a band with him for several years although I always saw the both as friends not people of color, or origin.

In a previous post, you said and I quote "I dont know if it is because Im not American" and you also say in your site that you grew up in Chile, so my statement was not based on racism, but facts, to which you obviously don't like to hear.

So Vinny, I say this: You've really ****ed me off pulling the proverbial "racist" card when confronted with facts and honest replies, and as far as I can say, you can go open a can of "Go **** Yourself".

You sir, have stooped to an all time low.

I'm presenting my excuses to the people in this forum for the direction this post has taken. All I can say is that I resist to go this low. I consider myself out of this debate. if Tommy or the webmaster wants to close it, it's entirely up to his discretion. Thanks and God bless all of you.

Perhaps a lot of cats are hanging on to their gear, knowing they may not get their money back during the economic downturn.

So, there's less out there being offered up for sale.

Obviously this post has gotten a little personal now. To add to that, I would just like to say congratulations on becoming a US citizen!

As to the rest of it, geez guys, these are just drums. I am as passionate about them as the next guy, but a little perspective please.

I've heard the opposite from a guitar player. When the economy is down more people sell because they need money which floods the market and can drive down prices/values. However, in a booming economy less people are selling, so less are available which drives up prices.

And another thing, Vinny is an awesome guy and really helped me. I understand what he said about buying and selling. As a business owner your goal is to make money and be profitable. He puts in the work to get the sets and deserves to be compensated for it. I go through the same thing, people want me to provide free treatment for themselves, friends, family, etc. I'm willing to do it but at the same time the time and effort I put forth is valuable. Keep up the good work Vinny.