Do you know that the federal Government now can seizes your instrument if it's made of an exotic wood? Unreal! If you have a drum that is made of any endangered wood they can be seized. Gibson guitars CEO was indited for making guitars of exotic wood. Were is this world and Government coming to.
http://www.wood-database.com/ Read this for traveling musicians if your instrument is made after these dates it will be confiscated .
Same thing holds true if you make drumheads out of the skins of endangered animals ... or friends and neighbors ... or retired politicians. It's a crazy mixed up sphere rolling around in space. Just hold on tight and try to not fall off.
This is old news, ask Gibson guitars about it, they have been raided twice without being charged with ANYTHING!! they had their wood taken by this present useless goverment with out any due process! And the Gibson CEO has not been indited your info is not correct.
This is old news yes, but in yesterdays news here in PA were Gibson's headquarter are located CEO was indited over this matter and it's all over the news.
vintagemore2000
This is posting in today's new's paper as part of that investigation they are conducting I am no wood expert but this is what they are saying
''Note that a listing generally means that trade of the raw wood, either in log, board, or veneer form, is restricted. On some species, the restriction is even greater, and includes even finished products made of or including a protected wood: one of the most common instances of this is with guitars made of Brazilian Rosewood. In these instances, it is illegal to take such items across international borders without a proper export permit.
If you believe that the wood or finished wood product was harvested/made before the date of the CITES listing, you still cannot legally travel with or export the wood unless you have written proof or other evidence that it was obtained before the listing date. If you have the required evidence, and are willing to pay a processing fee and wait 2-3 months for processing, then you may be eligible for a Pre-Convention Certificate.
In most cases, importing/exporting raw wood listed on CITES Appendices I or II can be complicated and costly, and in most cases, is neither legal nor encouraged. Some wood is further restricted to include even finished wood products, and in all but the most exceptional cases, is not recommended.
If ever in doubt on such complicated issues, be sure to consult proper authorities to get a matter clarified.''
This list they are banning and claim they will confiscate at airports and bus terminals around country.
Afrormosia Appendix II 6/11/92
Ajo Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75
Almendro Appendix III (including finished wood products; wood from Costa Rica, and Nicaragua only) 2/13/03
Brazilwood Appendix II 9/13/07
Cedar, Spanish Appendix III (wood from Columbia, Guatemala, and Peru only) 6/12/01
Cocobolo Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08
Lignum Vitae Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/13/03
Mahogany, Cuban Appendix II 6/11/92
Mahogany, Honduran Appendix II (wood from Neotropics only) 11/16/95
Mahogany, Mexican Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75
Monkey Puzzle Appendix I (including finished wood products) 7/1/75
Podocarp, Black Pine Appendix III (including finished wood products, wood from Nepal only) 11/16/75
Ramin Appendix II (including finished wood products) 8/6/01
Rosewood, Brazilian Appendix I (including finished wood products) 6/11/92
Rosewood, Honduran Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08
Sandalwood, Appendix II 2/16/95
Stinkwood, Red Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/16/95
Verawood Appendix II 6/23/10
With the Gibson raid I remember reading about a supplier in Europe (Germany maybe??) that would purchase the wood then sell and export it to the US then supposedly found it's way to Gibson. Or something of that nature I guess to avoid direct exposure buying the woods direct. There's a pretty extensive list of protected woods. With so many things that can happen to disguise the endangered woods as those not under the Lacey Act you really need to know what and who your buying from. And what about old stock bought before these laws came into effect? I understand laws under parts of the Act are very vauge at best. And Gibson still hasn't been formally charged on many counts. This has been ongoing over the last few years. But seems to be getting a head of steam and coming back into the headlines lately as things develop. MANY builders are watching this one.
With the prices some of these vintage guitars go for (hundreds of thousands sometimes) many stay shashed away from public eye never to be seen again. I doubt you'll see many traveling the world unless in the hands of the famous who play them.
This is old news yes, but in yesterdays news here in PA were Gibson's headquarter are located CEO was indited over this matter and it's all over the news.vintagemore2000 This is posting in today's new's paper as part of that investigation they are conducting I am no wood expert but this is what they are saying''Note that a listing generally means that trade of the raw wood, either in log, board, or veneer form, is restricted. On some species, the restriction is even greater, and includes even finished products made of or including a protected wood: one of the most common instances of this is with guitars made of Brazilian Rosewood. In these instances, it is illegal to take such items across international borders without a proper export permit.If you believe that the wood or finished wood product was harvested/made before the date of the CITES listing, you still cannot legally travel with or export the wood unless you have written proof or other evidence that it was obtained before the listing date. If you have the required evidence, and are willing to pay a processing fee and wait 2-3 months for processing, then you may be eligible for a Pre-Convention Certificate.In most cases, importing/exporting raw wood listed on CITES Appendices I or II can be complicated and costly, and in most cases, is neither legal nor encouraged. Some wood is further restricted to include even finished wood products, and in all but the most exceptional cases, is not recommended.If ever in doubt on such complicated issues, be sure to consult proper authorities to get a matter clarified.''This list they are banning and claim they will confiscate at airports and bus terminals around country. Afrormosia Appendix II 6/11/92Ajo Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75Almendro Appendix III (including finished wood products; wood from Costa Rica, and Nicaragua only) 2/13/03Brazilwood Appendix II 9/13/07Cedar, Spanish Appendix III (wood from Columbia, Guatemala, and Peru only) 6/12/01Cocobolo Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08Lignum Vitae Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/13/03Mahogany, Cuban Appendix II 6/11/92Mahogany, Honduran Appendix II (wood from Neotropics only) 11/16/95Mahogany, Mexican Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75Monkey Puzzle Appendix I (including finished wood products) 7/1/75Podocarp, Black Pine Appendix III (including finished wood products, wood from Nepal only) 11/16/75Ramin Appendix II (including finished wood products) 8/6/01Rosewood, Brazilian Appendix I (including finished wood products) 6/11/92Rosewood, Honduran Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08Sandalwood, Appendix II 2/16/95Stinkwood, Red Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/16/95Verawood Appendix II 6/23/10
can you post the paper article of the CEO inditement? this is not a good thing for anyone who owns wooden musical instruments.
[SIZE="5"]Monkey Puzzle & Stinkwood [/SIZE]... oh yeah, screw the authorities!
I'm building a snare out of those based solely on name alone.
Make one for me, but not out of the stink wood!
Really? This is all news to me. I would weigh in, but in all honesty it wouldn't matter. Violin
Unfortunately we still live in a golden rule society...whoever has the gold makes the rule. In this case Gibson, as well as anyone else included in this garbage piece of legislation, obviously do not have the gold. It's a shame to include finished products though. Really, the harm (if any) has been done, what good does it do to sieze a finished product unless the all mighty government has a machine that can revert the process to turn a guitar back into a tree? It's about as usefull as the cash for klunkers legislation. Laughing H
In the end, it won't matter much to me (or many people that I know). All of my pieces, though most are vintage, are common low end pieces made with common wood.
Really? This is all news to me. I would weigh in, but in all honesty it wouldn't matter. ViolinUnfortunately we still live in a golden rule society...whoever has the gold makes the rule. In this case Gibson, as well as anyone else included in this garbage piece of legislation, obviously do not have the gold. It's a shame to include finished products though. Really, the harm (if any) has been done, what good does it do to sieze a finished product unless the all mighty government has a machine that can revert the process to turn a guitar back into a tree? It's about as usefull as the cash for klunkers legislation. Laughing HIn the end, it won't matter much to me (or many people that I know). All of my pieces, though most are vintage, are common low end pieces made with common wood.
It goes way further back than this, the Gibson CEO was told by the feds if he was to move his factory out of the country he could use whatever wood he pleased?? WTF!! this is a 1200 employee operation and never mind the sub jobbers connected to this plant this would hit Tennessee and the south very hard. this has been going on for just about 3 years now. present administration??? I own a 1961 Gibson les paul SG solid mahogany and most of my drums have mahogany in them also. It matters to all that own vintage wooden instruments.
Utter nonsense to nab something that was made in 1959 and say that is it contraband now.
However.. having spent a little time flying at very low altitudes over central america... (all legal flights). Those jungles and forests were noticeably shrinking on a daily basis.
Seizing Gibson guitars isn't going to stop it... I believe mother earth will take care of herself and if we mess it up enough she will get rid of the problem :confused: and keep right on spinning until the trees grow back.
