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Keith Moon heads question...

Posts: 103 Threads: 1

Anyone know the thickness of Keith's heads from the early days thru Live at Leeds period? I'm in love with that open, ringing, out of control drum sound. It sounds to me like he used fairly thin heads. Had they come out with medium to heavy mylar heads in the 60's, or were all heads pretty thin. I'l like to find white Aquarian heads that give that great open sound. Basically, the antithesis of the modern drum sound. I have a big set of larger diameter (14 and up) mid 70's 3-ply Slingerlands. So, here are my choices...

(1) Medium top/medium bottom = Texture Coated/Classic Clear Gloss White

(2) Medium top/thin bottom = Texture Coated/Hi-Frequency Gloss White

(3) Thin top/thin bottom = Hi-Frequency Coated/High Frquency Gloss White

I'm intrigued by the idea of doing thin, smooth finish whites on the bottoms and medium texture coated on the tops. But would it be too ringy and high endy? Or will the larger toms compensate for the thinner bottom heads? Would thins all around, top and bottom, sound cool? Or do I play it safe with medium texture coated top and bottom? I want that exciting, totally unleashed, "Cobwebs and Strange"/"Young Man Blues" sound. Probably totally unpractical in this day and age, but what the hell?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Posted on 13 years ago
#1
Posts: 1829 Threads: 86

I think Keef played Remo CS heads since the the time they were introduced, which is an Ambassador with a centre dot.

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 13 years ago
#2
Posts: 818 Threads: 10

Start here:

http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/drums/drumsmisc.html#drumheads

Then go here,

http://www.behindthedrums.com/KeithMoon.htm

Posted on 13 years ago
#3
Posts: 730 Threads: 61

I'm getting a good "Live at Leeds" sound on 12-13-16 3-ply Slingerlands with coated Ambassador tops and clear Diplomat bottoms.

I'm satisfied, but I bet I could get more ring with smooth white tops.

With larger drums, you'll want a fairly tight tuning to achieve this sound. As always, your results will vary based on playing style and stick choice.

Try to record yourself. If it seems too ringy from the throne, it's probably just right from 20 feet away.

Good luck!

9x Slingerland New Rock 50N 12-13-16-22 with 170 (Super S-O-M) holder
• 1979 Oak
• 1978 Blakrome + 6.5x14 TDR SD
• 1977 Black Diamond Pearl + 5x14 SD (gold badge, Rapid strainer)
• 1976 Black Cordova
• 1975 Silver Sparkle + 5x14 SD (Rapid strainer)
• 1974 Chrome + 5x14 COB TDR and 6.5x14 COW Zoomatic SDs
• 1973 Purple Sparkle
• 1973 Phantom (clear)
• 1971 Walnut (gold badges) + 5x14 TDR SD
1x Rogers Powertone Londoner V 12-13-16-22
• 1972 Butcher Block + 1979 big R Dynasonic SD
Posted on 13 years ago
#4
Posts: 103 Threads: 1

From al9000

I'm getting a good "Live at Leeds" sound on 12-13-16 3-ply Slingerlands with coated Ambassador tops and clear Diplomat bottoms.I'm satisfied, but I bet I could get more ring with smooth white tops.With larger drums, you'll want a fairly tight tuning to achieve this sound. As always, your results will vary based on playing style and stick choice.Try to record yourself. If it seems too ringy from the throne, it's probably just right from 20 feet away.Good luck!

Awesome advice. So, medium top and thin bottom? I'll probably try that combination on one drum and see how it works. Thanks!

Posted on 13 years ago
#5
Posts: 818 Threads: 10

You must also consider that Live at Leeds was recorded in a 200 yo Terracotta and limestone rectangle shaped building with plaster and horsehair interior walls, oak floors, large paladian windows, 50' (+/-) ceiling height, mic'd speakers on a Ampex 8 track recorder.

Keith used the Everplay (7mil) heads, which were smooth on a 3 ply shell Premier kit.

Posted on 13 years ago
#6
Posts: 730 Threads: 61

I'd say thin bottoms no matter what. Experimenting on the tops is a good call. You might be able to find some used ones at your neighborhood store on the cheap. Tell them what you're doing and that you'll be back for a full set of the winners; they might give you a deal.

I'm rarely mic'ed live, but I'm going into the studio in three weeks, so I'll be interested in how the engineer handles my wide-open drums.

9x Slingerland New Rock 50N 12-13-16-22 with 170 (Super S-O-M) holder
• 1979 Oak
• 1978 Blakrome + 6.5x14 TDR SD
• 1977 Black Diamond Pearl + 5x14 SD (gold badge, Rapid strainer)
• 1976 Black Cordova
• 1975 Silver Sparkle + 5x14 SD (Rapid strainer)
• 1974 Chrome + 5x14 COB TDR and 6.5x14 COW Zoomatic SDs
• 1973 Purple Sparkle
• 1973 Phantom (clear)
• 1971 Walnut (gold badges) + 5x14 TDR SD
1x Rogers Powertone Londoner V 12-13-16-22
• 1972 Butcher Block + 1979 big R Dynasonic SD
Posted on 13 years ago
#7
Posts: 730 Threads: 61

From al9000

I'm rarely mic'ed live, but I'm going into the studio in three weeks, so I'll be interested in how the engineer handles my wide-open drums.

Report from the studio:

The engineer was a drummer, so I went with all of his suggestions. The sound isn't quite as "live" as when I play live, but I'm generally satisfied.

Bass: We tried it with the front head on, but I don't have a hole and he really wanted to stick a mic in there. So we removed the front head and installed some blankets. I'll admit that he got a nice, deep thud, but that sound would get lost live and un-mic'ed.

Snare (6.5" wood TDR): Just one square of moon gel.

Toms: Didn't touch a thing. I use the toms in beats regularly and he got great tone and sustain.

I'm sure he futzed with the sound on the board. I like the results, but I don't discern the "personality" of the kit ... nothing stands out to me to indicate that these parts were played on a 1978-era set of Slingerlands. Still, the sound fits well with the rest of the songs, and the rest of the band is very happy with it.

If anyone is so inclined, check it out at reverbnation.com/instigatorband.

9x Slingerland New Rock 50N 12-13-16-22 with 170 (Super S-O-M) holder
• 1979 Oak
• 1978 Blakrome + 6.5x14 TDR SD
• 1977 Black Diamond Pearl + 5x14 SD (gold badge, Rapid strainer)
• 1976 Black Cordova
• 1975 Silver Sparkle + 5x14 SD (Rapid strainer)
• 1974 Chrome + 5x14 COB TDR and 6.5x14 COW Zoomatic SDs
• 1973 Purple Sparkle
• 1973 Phantom (clear)
• 1971 Walnut (gold badges) + 5x14 TDR SD
1x Rogers Powertone Londoner V 12-13-16-22
• 1972 Butcher Block + 1979 big R Dynasonic SD
Posted on 13 years ago
#8
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