Check out this 14" Ludwig FT on ebay right now and the price they want for it. I might consider just buying a new Classic Ludwig 14".

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ludwig-14-Floor-Tom-Red-Sparkle-Classic-Drum-Vint-60s-/150595131010?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D120691410522%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8753084170329697437

That's an inflated price. Here are several others

(not 3 ply, early 6 ply)

http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Ludwig-Floor-Tom-15-x-14-/270739830196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0959f5b4

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-LUDWIG-FLOOR-TOM-14X14-/220774634807?pt=Vintgae_Drums_Percussion&hash=item3367319537

You have to wait if you want a good deal, although I agree a new one is a viable option as well.

The reason Champagne wrap costs more is that it has real copper flakes inside the finish!

Look at a old piece of wrap,and you can see them.

6 ply b/o Champagne 14" floor tom went for $199 a couple of months ago.

A club date 14 sold in November for $199. In October a 14" 60s Champagne floor tom sold for $310. Earlier a couple of listings for 14" Champagne floor toms, unsold for an asking price around $430 and up.

I tried to find a 14" Gretsch Champagne floor tom a couple of years ago and it was more rare and expensive than a Ludwig was, but I ended up using a Walberg Floor tom that was close to being a match to the Gretsch but had smaller sparkles. At the time I also explored the possibility of wrapping a drum in that finish. True a good match is hard to come by and it is one of the more expensive wraps.

I disagree with what was posted earlier about 14" toms having only the larger lugs. I have seen many 14" floor toms with the smaller classic lugs. Just as I am sure, all of you have seen many mounted toms with either small or large classic lugs. Whether it was a factory error, factory shortage, human error, or custom order, it worked. There were no "Ludwig Experts" then.

Today, some people treat the drums as some sort of sacred objects but back in the '50's and '60's it was just product and merchandise. There were no hard and steadfast rules other then, build it, ship it, sell it.

Some of the marching snares (and snares with 2 sets of lugs rather than the 2-sided lugs) had mini classics, but up to and beyond the period of time we're discussing here, Plexi, only the 8x12 toms had mini-classic lugs. Maybe you've seen some of the only ones out there being the factory "mistakes", but I have not. The rest of them have large classic lugs.

Admittedly, later, including more recently, they've outfitted their drums with mostly the mini classic lugs, or had the large lugs as an option. I don't have a problem with the original poster putting a 14" floor tom with mini classic lugs together with his set (and it could actually work if he's putting just the 8x12 with it and the 18 has the large lugs) but if you have a smaller drum on the set with larger lugs (in this case the 9x13) it might look a bit funky. Plus his original intention was to find a 70s b/o badge 14" floor tom, and NONE of them had mini classic lugs.

I don't claim to be an expert, just someone who's gone through many, many drums, own a few catalogs, etc..

That's absolutely correct and I've tried many times to explain this to people. Back in "the day" drums were just that -drums. There were no experts and no one analyzed them.

But, NOW, everything has changed. A new game got invented as a result of this country flushing its own manufacturing down the toilet. The Asians came in and conquered the drum building industry decades ago. But, the one thing they couldn't do was build American drums! So, of course, everyone wants what they can't have. After awhile, every drum set started to sound the same. The same goals were in mind for every company. Suspension mounts, undersized maple ply shells with sharp bearing edges became the standard. The only way there was any individualirty...(to be continued....I have an important call!)

For vintage ludwig drumsets, mini classic lugs were featured predominantly only on the 8x12 rack tom. The progressively larger rack toms had the large classic lugs.

Although I agree with you in general, your little rant about manufacturing USA vs Japan has little to do with what types of lugs are on Ludwig drums. We certainly had the chance to move as a country en masse towards much greater efficiency and accuracy in productivity, and the story about W. Edwards Deming is well known.

Gee, I guess it's a good thing that your not an "expert".

Wow! Ok, now I know where you're coming from. Thanks for that. And for reminding me what topic we were on.

DOH