This is why I usually don't purchase drums that aren't right in front of me.

When you buy something online, you're taking a risk. I have no doubt that you didn't know the snare beds were cut after market. That's a chance that the buyer would have to take. The seller lets the buyer know, to the best of their ability, all of the details that the buyer wants to know--answering questions, taking detailed pictures, etc. At a certain point, the buyer must decide to pull the trigger and buy something that they haven't personally inspected...that's their gamble. There's a reason that the term is "significantly not as described". You described the drum, the buyer was pleased with that description, the buyer took action to buy something "as is".

If you're willing to refund the $200, that's very generous of you. The buyer got a nice drum, and was willing to pay for it. The only way I would see a refund being in order would be if you described the bearing edges as being "factory" or "original"...

Did you offer to take the drum back, as he was dissatisfied with it after purchase? Most of us do that for other members here. It's common courtesy on this particular forum. Obviously, you would have to work out the return shipping cost, but pretty much ALL of the deals I've done here have been with that understanding. Both as buyer and seller, if either is dissatisfied, a return is in order. We are not businessmen here (for the most part). We're just a bunch of semi-like-minded vintage drum junkies who help each other out. Even the drum business guys offer refunds. Maybe something to consider.

Thank you for your responses, caddywumpus, you nailed it, the buyer takes a chance when buying on line. RogerSling, you also nailed it, I'm not a business man and unfortunately I don't have the means to give a full refund, I've spent most of the money on bills I have. That being said, I still believe he got a good deal and if nothing else he could resell the drum for at least what he paid.

Here's an idea. Have him put it up on ebay. If he gets more (after commissions and all) than he paid for....then put the matter to bed. If he gets less, you can pay the difference - up to $300. If these are such a hot item, then it should garner the high bids and perhaps this issue will take care of itself. BUT OF COURSE PUT THIS IN WRITING.

Personally, I think that edge cutting should not be a factor in this dispute. He could always get it recut for a mere 20 bucks. Yeah, the bottom edge will be shorter to the lugs, but this was meant as a player, not a collection piece. The inside of the shell being painted.....you are more than generous for offering him a $200 refund, though I agree that if that was not disclosed, he is due a refund for that particular factor. But again, you are being considerate for offering $200 back. If I were him, I would take you up on that and walk away paying much less than the market price.....get the edge recut, and just live with the painted interior. It was never supposed to be a collector anyway, but a player....and for his $1000 investment...that is a good price for that snare (despite the fact that I would likely never pay that much for one drum.....but that is perhaps more a of a reflection of my poverty!)

I just hope he is willing to work with you as much as you are willing to work with him - which you clearly are.

John

I'm the guy that bought the Dyna from johnnyringo...Mark Hopkins...the way this was presented to the forum members by him is not exactly true, or entirely accurate, so I'd like to take the opportunity to give you the cliff notes version of what transpired.

I'm not exactly new to the vintage drum world. I've been buying and selling vintage drums for almost 30 years and have some degree of knowledge. I sell mainly on eBay these days and my eBay ID is hunter953. I have almost 1900 stars, 100% feedback and am a Top Rated Seller. I'm stating that only for the purposes of letting members know that I do know how to describe an item and have never failed to describe a flaw or a modification to any item I've listed. Like most of you, I don't wait for questions to be asked before I disclose a problem.

The comments that have been posted so far on this thread are reasonable, based on what Mark has told you...first off...I bought the snare believing that it was an original Dyna but knowing that the interior was painted black. I know Jack Lawton quite well and we discussed the situation before I purchased the drum. $1200, was indeed a fair price for what I believed I was buying...an original Dyna with a black interior. I have no problem with that at all. When I received the drum and discovered that the snare beds had been cut, I contacted Mark to inform him of this. The first thing he said was that he didn't know they had been cut and if I was looking for a refund that wasn't going to happen. I reminded him that he clearly stated on the Forum that if whoever bought the drum wasn't happy he'd gladly take it back. Well,apparently that wasn't going to happen in this case. He offered me $200 to 'keep the peace' as he put it. I suggested that since it wasn't an original Dyna anymore that $300 would be more appropriate since he refused to take the drum back. Just as an aside...nobody was standing in line to buy this drum at $1200 with a painted interior...I dare say not one of you would have given him even $900 if you knew the beds had been cut down.

He and I have been going back and forth on this for a number of days, with him telling me he decided to give me nothing... to I'll give you the $200 I originally told you I'd give you. I was fine with that...disappointed but OK...Yesterday he told he he'd send the funds. Today, he informs me he doesn't have the money since he had to pay bills....

Here's the bottom line...this is probably my fault...I knew this guy's reputation by reading comments from him and about him from forum members.One of two things is true here...1) if he even looked at this drum and didn't realize the beds had been cut, then he's hardly a Vintage Drum Guru and should not be commenting on anything relevant to vintage drums on this forum...or 2) he knew the beds had been cut, but because I didn't specifically ask about it he chose not to disclose it...which means to me he's not entirely upfront with his business dealings...you don't have to be a businessman to be honest.

I've sold items to many forum members on eBay and I've purchased from a number of you as well...always a pleasant experience, and I know it will continue to be. It's quite sad to think that we can't be straight up with our brothers...this isn't eBay.

Sorry for the lengthy diatribe but I did want everyone to know how this really played out.

Thanks,

Bob

We discussed this drum to death in here.

The snare bed was never discussed. None of the posted pics gave any suspicion the bearing edge had been messed with. . I do remember harping about LARGE High Resolution pics, which we never really seen in regards to this drum. Would they have made a difference? I dunno.

I would like to see this resolved better than a bunch of crappy quotes of 'Buyer Beware.'

Cut beds are unrestorable, and the drum is no longer what it is supposed to be, nor can it be made to be. Cut beds on a Dynasonic does not give you a drum at a fair price with restoration issues. Cut beds arent an "issue," it is a deal killer.

Myself, only a full refund would have satisfied this.

300 bucks is cheap.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the VDG title is awarded here simply by the number of postings.

I know what I like and can offer some useful knowledge, but when I hit the magic number, I still won't be an expert.

Exactly what I said. I don't get why the man can't have his money back. Saying that the money is already spent is not a way to carry a transaction on this or any other arena. If the drum was flawed, take the return. If you have to pay the man back in two installments, then so be it. But be an integrous individual and return the man's money.

Geez, this has been brewing for a couple of years. It was just a matter of time. Man, what a drag.

RogerSling...you and The Ploughman seem to understand the situation at hand quite well. The drum is really now a 10 lug PowerTone...it can never again be a Dyna. Having said that, I offered to work with this guy since he can't afford to offer a refund. When he told me he wouldn't take the drum back, I resigned myself to keeping it and sent the drum to Jack to see what he could do with it.

Rather than putting this guy under duress for a full refund I asked for what I believed to be a reasonable offset given the condition of the drum which, for whatever reason, was not disclosed. I'd like to put this behind me, and I hope he does too...

Thanks to both of you for your comments...much appreciated.

Bob