I tripped over this on the Internet yesterday…see the photo below.

A lot of history of drummers in the R&B Funk and Soul bands of the 60s….looks like an interesting book.

I you are interested click on the link ….and scroll down.

There are 182 pages of info and photos.

Disregard the blank pages…keep scrolling…there is more.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=M3cqzbDc6dsC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=R+%26+B+d#v=onepage&q&f=false

When the link opens go back to the top until you see the photo shown below.

(Be patient while the photo loads.)

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was a great admirer of Ray Lucas and his drumming style back in the mid 60s.

He worked with the King Curtis & the King Pins….they were the house band at the Apollo at one point. See page 145 in the link above.

The band that I was with in 1964 had the pleasure to work on the same bill in Montreal

with the Curtis band.

I have been looking for a decent photo of Ray sitting behind his black Gretsch kit to no avail.

What I just found out is that in August 1967 he had recorded with Jimi Hendrix…..see the link below.

Some photos and an interesting web site on the early days of Hendrix.

If you navigate around this site it gives an interesting sense of the touring circuit at that time.

http://www.earlyhendrix.com/knight-studio-1967

The second and fourth photos show the Curtis band at the Apollo…..not very good photos…unfortunately. Ray Lucas is on the drums in these photos.

The last photo is of two CDs by Burnard Purdie that I don't regret purchasing.

He his referred to in the top link to a great degree.

David

David cool stuff! Thanks for the floor tom photo. The white paint appeared sometime in 1961. I think around that time the muffler on the toms also changed from a round knob to what is commonly known as the ball bat muffler because the lever looks like a baseball bat. The felt on early ball bat mufflers was red and it changed to a white in 1965. Serial numbers did not appear on badges until 1964.

Thanks for all your pic and the history lesson. Sounds like you did some great playing!

Great Players set and the Oyster Blue Pearl was definately one of Ludwigs best looking wraps. I have the same rail mount on my super classics and it holds a 12" on a 22", built like a tank and never moves but that could be because of the smaller size rack tom or the exact locations of both mounts in relation to one another. If it were mine, I'd ditch the tom with mutliple mounts along with the double tom holder use a snare stand for the other rack tom and cover the oops with a custom made chromed plate.

Why I decided I needed a second tom on the BD back in the 80s I will never know.

It was not one of my more brilliant decisions.

When I received the new blue oyster pearl 8x12 from Ludwig back in the 80s it was a later generation of blue oyster pearl and did not match the original drum color at all.

(How naïve was I assuming that the color would have remained the same twenty years later.)

I was pretty disappointed at the time and when I found the fellow with the 9x13 in the same blue oyster color that was willing to trade drums, that is where the problem started.

That is when the dual tom post mount was added to the BD.

Slingalud I appreciate your suggestion; however the 9x13 with the second mount is the original 1960 dated drum that came with the BD. Both have the transition badge.

The second 9x13 that I received in the trade has the keystone badge with serial number 216102. (According to Kurt’s comments above - probably 1964 vintage…thanks again for the info Kurt.)

If I knew then what I know now….none of this would have happened.

I think I will just leave things as they are. Whatever I do will not change the fact that these alterations from the original 1960 configuration are the current reality.

I have a passion collecting other types of items, and long ago I learned it is either correct

as it relates to originality (and condition)....or it isn't.

There is no in between!

The value is totally dependant on that.

David

As the original and only owner of these drums from the age of 14 or 15 (1960-61) I thought I would end this thread with some old photos and a bit of a story.

Photo #1 ----High school Dixieland band 1961—no floor tom showing in the photo.

NOTE-the trombone player on the far right of the photo…his father was the music director for the high school…a great fellow.

I also played in his concert and marching band at that time.

Photo # 2 My first rock and roll band-probably late 1961 or 1962.

(O-Lugs- “Up Up and away way in our beautiful balloon”…. a great tune …but that was not our creation…..sorry to say.)

Photo # 3 Our business card….we were very serious young dudes.

NOTE;

I played with a seventeen piece band for about 25 years---I stopped about five years ago.

Photo # 4 The same trombone player that played in the high school Dixieland band back in 1961 –sitting to the right of the guitar player in the same big band.

Photo # 5 Yours truly on drums… showing the two 9x13 toms.

The same trombone player is in the third chair to the right of the drums…he is still playing with the band.

Thanks for all your patience and help.

David

(Click on the images to enlarge them if you wish)

This was a little different than the seventeen piece big band stuff that would come many years later.

In 1963 we were the house band at the 217 Club in Montreal…our group was called the Senators.

In 1963 the Isley Brothers played the club with a guitar player by the name of Jimi Hendrix….he stood out as a side man in this band.

Playing the guitar with his teeth…behind his head….who would have known at that time what lay ahead for him.

Some time after that, I saw him perform in Europe…he was on his way.

Photo #1 and #2 – The Isley Brothers at the 217 Club with Hendrix.

Photo #1 Hendrix is second from the left.

Photo # 2 Hendrix is far left.

One of the other clubs in Montreal we were also playing at that time was the Esquire Show Bar.

Photo # 3 and 4. With- King Curtis and Tommy Hunt.

Photo #5 Our group at the 217 Club.

A show that never happened –July 23 1964 at the Montreal Forum in Montreal.

(The Forum is where the Montreal Canadians Hockey team played.)

The fellow that owned the 217 Club decided he wanted to put on a super show in Montreal. He was a very ambitious guy and wanted the best American R&B groups to play at his club.

At that time Mary Wells and her hit “My Guy” was hot.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1M5eEJeT38[/ame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Guy

She didn’t show!

One of the sax players in our group remembers chasing after Diana Ross while Ben E. King’s drummer was tuning up.

Our group, the Senators was booked for that show.

It was a fiasco….many of the artists had travelled to Montreal….and the show didn’t happen.

Apparently the ticket sales were awful.

I don’t remember how long the 217 Club remained open after that.

It had been a very successful club up to that point.

Photos # 1 and 2 – The 217 Club program and flyer announcing the show.

Photo # 3 Our Group the Senators shown with Junior Walker (Shotgun) in Montreal.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4kFiQJmXg&NR=1[/ame]

Photo # 4- King Curtis at the Esquire Show Bar in Montreal.

Photo # 5 Yours truly at the 217 Club---when my drum set was still original.

David

(Click on the images to enlarge them...if you wish.)

wonderful history- love the photos and the vibe!

I recently reconnected with one of my old drumming buddies from the 60s at a launch of a CD for another music buddy from the old days. Everyone is in their mid 60s.

The guy that released the CD is still pushing the old R&B sound from the 60s and people are loving it. (Young people and old turds that remember this music.)

He is doing live shows featuring the old sound from the Esquire Show Bar days…six month stands each time.

Great players that do that music justice.

My old drumming buddy sold his Rogers kit many years ago and now seems to miss playing…and is thinking of buying another kit.

I suggested he consider a vintage kit, because he was actively playing back in the 60s.

He knows nothing about the vintage stuff and has been looking at new stuff.

I have no idea what will happen…..but he recently sent me the links below.

I don’t know anything about these players….but they sure kick ass.

(For this style of music.)

This style of drumming did not exist when I was playing.

(Nor did this style of music (or drum kits) exist for that matter.)

I was brought up with Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Max Roach , Louis Bellson…Roy Haynes, Joe Morello and Bernard Purdie.....I also liked the interpretive style of Chuck Mangiones' drummer.

David

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PqxiWOxwuw&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEe4-ZtjnT0&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUq7oFIjRM[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRSvON87afM[/ame]

Photo #1 -The guy who is bringing the old 60s R&B tunes back on his CDs and live shows.

Photo #2 and 3- His talented keyboard player...also shown on the B3 back in the 60s at the Esquire Show Bar.

NOTE;

The drummer shown at the right in the 3rd photo is the fellow that sold his Rogers kit many years ago.....and sent me the links above.

(Click on the images to enlarge them.)

Great stuff there David, your drums are priceless to you and your grandchildren.

BTW, your floor tom alone can fetch up to 900.00, depending on the condition of course.