JR!

Really? Buddy played Ludwig? I didn't know that! All joking aside... the point I was making was that I could understand WHY Mark/VM2K doesn't care for Rogers... especially so when he is a big fan of Ludwig Stainless Steel shells. Your comment regarding what if Ringo had chosen Rogers instead of Ludwig is certainly valid, just like what if BR had played Ludwig Stainless Steel? All these artists would tailor the drums to THEIR particular musical style/genre. The fact remains however .. and this is what I meant about Rogers being "better suited" for jazz .. that Rogers shells were 5 ply/rings, whereas Ludwig and Slingerland during the same period were 3 ply/rings. The Rogers shell based on it's build, immediately has a higher fundamental than either Ludwig or Slingerland, making it "speak" a little clearer and in a higher range... perfect for jazz! The 3 ply THUD as I like to call it was perfect for R&R, which is why Ludwig was so popular for that genre. Ringo certainly had a lot to do with Ludwig's initial popularity!, but after that... it was that great 3 ply/rings shell that did it for the R&R guys. Lastly...

I had a set of 1949/1950 WFL Buddy Rich Super Classics. I had/played them for approx. 10 years before selling them this past May. Comparing them with my Rogers A/B, there was no comparison... and I don't mean quality. The Rogers "speak" with a little more articulation, and if you tried to get the WFL's in that area .. and the only way to do that is to tension UP .. they will, and did... choke. Much better R&R drums as they really open up at lower tension/tunings. Listen to ANY of BR's performances from 1946 to 1959 when he was with WFL/Ludwig with the 3 ply/rings drums, and you can hear that unmistakable "thud". Now go listen to BR with his Rogers from 1960 to 1967, and it's totally different as the Rogers shells function at a higher tension/tuning with the actual fundamental being higher as well.

All great stuff for a discussion/comparison! I'll attach a couple pics from my Buddy Rich display/history at this past May's Chicago Drum Show and you can see my WFL's. They are near MINT!, incredible for 65 years old! ENJOY!

Tommyp

plus 1 tommyp

Ahh yes, the famous Ludwig thud, so then we must ask ourselves, why wasn't Slingerland popular with rock drummers? Like you said, basically the same shells and rounded edges. In my humble opinion, for all the reasons you mentioned, Rogers were just plain better drums. I love Ludwig, but like you mentioned, they only perform well at lower tunings. Rogers can be tuned high or low, not to mention the hardware which you would think would had been more suited for the rock guys. Ludwig fold out legs and clumsy rail mounts were crap compared to Rogers. Oh wait, the rock guys did use Rogers hardware on their Ludwig kits. DOH

JR!

... and that has been the question for the ages! : ... "why wasn't Slingerland popular with the rock drummers?" Finally, when Buddy hooked up with Slingerland in 1968 and through the 70's, they caught a little fire as a drum company. Again though, it was Buddy's popularity and influence that pushed that along. So true though... you would think they would be right in there fighting it out with Ludwig, but no... Ludwig owned the rock drummers. Interestingly, I found Slingerland's snare drums to be of more interest than the rest of their drums, and BR had a lot to do with that too during this period!

I didn't want you to misunderstand... I didn't say that WFL/Ludwig don't perform well at higher tension/tunings, it's just that they seem to be so much BETTER at lower tension/tunings. Ta-may-toe ... ta-mah-toe ... it's all the same!

So true!... Swivo-matic was ingenious in it's design!, and without a doubt the standard to be measured against in the day. A LOT of drummers playing other brand drums used Swivo hardware, tom mounts especially. I have to say that I have been playing/gigging on Cleveland era 1965 Rogers for just about 15 years now, and none of the Swivo hardware has ever failed... not once. Way ahead of it's time back in the day, and still good today!

Tommyp

I know Tommyp, I've owned several Ludwig kits and I know they can sound good tuned a bit higher. But, I honestly think it's the names associated with the drums rather than the drums themselves that gave Ludwig that rock image. I know there are a lot of guys who love Bonham and since that's what he played, that's what they play. Again, just my opinion , but I think I'm right.Walking

Great thread. My humble take is that Slingerland was just to slow to update and when they did it wasn't anything special. Shame they didn't pursue the MIJ factories for copying designs. Why buy x when y is half the cost and looks the same.

Love the thud but more times than not a boom my 40/50s Slingerlands make:-).

Creighton