I would have to agree with Mike T. (Sorry for the rhyme)

If we are comparing the entire drum kit package, and I think that is the point of this thread, then Rogers would probably have to be declared the winner. We can argue ad naseum over who made the best shells or which drum sounded better, more musical or whatever. When you consider sound quality, build quality as well as hardware functionality and durability, I don't think that Camco, Ludwig or Gretsch can compete. Gretsch mounting hardware was a joke and I mean a joke. Camco fared better but not by much. Ludwig came close but their stuff stripped and slipped. Rogers utilized forward thinking design concepts and built a great product because of it. I have no idea what the hardware designers at Gretsch were thinking. Not so much planned obsolescence as it was planned aggravation.

One of these days I'll own a Rogers kit. My vintage aspirations have had to take a back seat to purchases that actually make money for me.

Rogers B&B drums were jasper shells. Three ply with wide rings. The first keller shells had B&B lugs, 62/63. The first gen beavertails came out in 63.

Keller was the exclusive supplier from 62-84, three ply, then five ply, 9/72 era three ply, then five ply to 79, and finally the all American Maple XP8 from 79-84.

The fullerton cast floor tom knobby was an improvement over the machined version for the following reasons, cost was significantly reduced, the chrome was excellent, the mounts NEVER, NEVER, EVER,....failed. Only an idiot could make a Fullerton cast knobby fail. The cast collet tensioners, not so much.

The Big R Memriloc hardware made Pearl the drum company it is today. It would even be hard for Pearl corporate to argue that.

Rogers had quality control issues from time to time in the Fullerton Swivo and Fullerton Big R eras. And so did Gretsch, Ludwig, Slingerland, Pearl, as well as X, Y, and Z brands.

Still, I choose to play Rogers.

I wonder if I could order up a set of DW Collector Customs and have Rogers lugs installed.

Ploughman, you are an absolute wealth of Rogers knowledge. What a fine asset you are.

So how do you think modern day Keller shells compare to Rogers shells of ___________ era? Perhaps that should be another thread or already is another thread.

The only thing wrong with keller shells is what is ultimately done with them. Over the past ten years there have been thousands of come and go boutique "custom drum companies" that have popped out of the woodwork and then vanished. Most of them leaving a string of disappointed and often cheated "endorsed" teen and young adult players in their wake. For the most part, all they had to offer was the flavor of the week fade lacquer and clown posse colors. Lugs were routinely ordered from the same online source, wraps from Jammin Sam/et. al, and come on, seriously, anyone with a decent table can cut double 45 edges. Young players got suckered into saving... and spending... thousands for generic parts. Its like buying that Pfizer 150 dollar a dose heart medicine that keeps you alive from some online website, only it was made in an Ensenada basement by a guy who never went to school past the third grade for the same price. It is not the Keller shell one should poo poo, it is the sub-prograde product being turned out bearing the name... custom. Visit some of the other forums and see the disdain with which some hold Keller shells.

I honestly don't know if Ayotte built their own shells or not. Or, if not, I have no idea who the supplier was/is. This much I do know, having owned and played a set of Ayotte Customs for ten years, those thin six ply shells with reinforcing rings...... could sing. Very similar to the sound of Rogers. A level of finish Rogers would have achieved within 3-5 years had they survived past 1984. The shell innovation achieved by DW in the last ten years.... I seriously believe Rogers would have been there sooner. Had they survived, there might not be a DW.

And had they survived, perhaps they could have bought yamahaha and killed it.

Thanks for the reply. I am not quite as quick to turn up my nose at the boutique builders/assemblers. You just have to know what and from whom you are purchasing. I have two Spaun kits that were built for me for a project I was producing and the toms are extremely musical and very easy to tune. 6 ply Keller shells with very attractive finishes and very nice custom lugs. Evans uses their drums for their catalogue photos by the way.

One last Rogers question since I seem to have hijacked this thread: when Rogers started cutting a double 45 bearing edge, what did they use on their kick drums. I am not at all convinced that a double 45 works so well in that application.

I have owned 14 RB kits and never had any of the problems you mention.

never one hardware issue

well I lied.....I had one microsensitive strainer that slipped a little when played very hard.

other than that I have zero complaints for 14 kits

Ludwig however I have had many hardware issues ...not to mention the horrible tuning issues on those 12" toms ....ugh

My rogers is dayton and fullerton and Ive been told by a drum expert that its identical in 67-69 as it was in 64. So if the quality is any different than its miniscule. The kick is a dayton and so is the snare and the toms (12-13-16) are fullerton (early I believe, so possibly late daytons).

Sorry Mike. Actually my head was set in todays world not that of the 60's. So with that in mind you said directly that my Drums do something that they do not because of how I can set them up with modern tech. Yes if it were 1968 we would be having a way different discussion, but my influence on vintage drums is free of Tom slip and BD creep issues. Looks, tone and character, sticking feel and the way they record. I'm not directly competing in the Rogers v Gretsch awards, I'm just saying my current Gretsch's are blowing my mind these days. By far the best kit I've ever owned.

Actually I have to apply the same tech to my Big R kit. That hardware is simply hopeless. Those Tom mounts kill the Toms, and those poles that stick out of the BD are simply useless. However the shells are lovely and it makes for a great recording kit too.

PM me anytime Mike, I would like to hear about you gigging exploits from the 60's sometime.

I think the "expert" was wrong...

put a 1965 shell up to a 1973....no comparison.....

Even the weight is much more on the 65...all the gray lead paint inside...etc.

I had some circa 1972 shells on FeePay very recently...8 by 12,9 by 13,10 by 14....all 3 in the Super Hip NEW finish (gag)....

Shells only...no badges....NO EXTRA HOLES.....started at $9.99..........NOT 1 BID!

Do you think that would be the case if they were from 1965?.Really doubt it!Aside from the fact they really didn't make a 10 by 14 for drum set back then.....