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What did my early 70's Ludwig kit start out as? Last viewed: 1 hour ago

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From kevins

Call it the Defecator, or the Pentagon, or Leroy for all that I care, and for all that it really matters......or, maybe call it Shelly Manne, or Holiday, for all that that really matters........???.......:)

The Shelly Manne configuration changed from one catalog to the next. My set looks like the set pictured in the last SlingerLeedy catalog with the exception of the optional smaller bass drum.

There was not a Holiday drum set configuration that I'm aware of. I meant to say that the bass drum and toms are Holiday model individual drums, and the snare drum is a Luxor model. But. I appreciate the humor that you pointed out in what I unintentionally conveyed in that post.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 13 years ago
#11
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Well, of course, I totally disagree with this sentiment, as a collector. I know all-too-well what people did back in the day, because I, too, come from back in the day.

There's no mystery about the fact that people didn't pay much creedence to the catalog-depicted sets back then. But, sometimes, they did.

There's no mystery to the fact that there were few (if any) drum collectors back then....thus no 'rules' for what was deemed as being valuable/desirable and what wasn't as far as drums and drum sets were concerned. But, now, decades later, things are different. Why?

One reason is that people will always want what they can't have anymore -ALWAYS. And since Asia has dominated manufactured goods for so long, we don't even have the choice to get something like a vintage set of American-made drums. So, guess what people want, now?

And, now, in response to that desire, there is a collecting game going on. You can choose to play or not, but there are some 'rules' as to what-is-what.

It makes ZERO difference what people ordered/didn't order back in the day. It's a moot point what they did back then. It was a different mindset altogether.

Having said that, the deal is this, nowadays..... Whatever sets were ordered to match something that Ludwig(for example) put out in a catalog and managed to survive, intact and in great condition for all the intervening years, is what holds premier status in the collecting world, in most cases. There are exceptional kits that don't follow the catalog provenance -celebrity configurations and things like that. But there are separate collectors who specialize in that separate facet of collecting, too, and they are also very particular about provenance.

There can be 10 million customer-ordered, non-catalogued, un-named drum sets out there in the world and maybe only 10 of them are just like the catalog-depicted ones. Guess which ones the collectors will want? And that's the game -getting to those hard-to-attain, desirable examples in as excellent a condition as possible.

Being specific about drum configuration names and sizes, numbers, etc. is what it's all about for some people. It happens all across the board in the world of collectibles. It's part of the fun. It is for me, anyway. It's part of the challenge to the collecting game. Not everyone plays....but I do. If anything, in some case, I wish I'd been more specific about some drums, before I laid my money down...but, oh, well. That's part o the game, too. You win some. You lose some.

There's nothing wrong with being specific in the world of collecting. You have to have a foundation. The old catalogs and names now serve a new purpose in defining some ground rules.

Violin

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 13 years ago
#12
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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From Rimwhack

Can anyone shed some light on this kit? I bought them new in '73, and yes, I should know what I bought, but I can't figure out what kit these came from as I didn't know much about the various kits offered back then. Here's the deal: they were part of a larger kit, but since Baker was my hero I only wanted the double shell toms, floor toms and double bass, so the kit was broken up to meet my needs. It had more shell (or mounted) toms, and I think there were concert toms,too, but I didn't want them. As a result I ended up with this kit, and I can't figure out what kit they were originally part of. I've learned from this forum that Octaplus were usually concert toms. Could this have been a double-headed Octaplus? Check out the sizes, too:9 x13 10 x 14 16 x 18 18 x 20 24 x 14(2) The bass drums are free of mounts as the two mounted toms have their own stand. Thanks for any insight you may have!

There's no such thing as a double-headed Octa-Plus. What you have is a "Pro Beat"-like configuration with the next step larger floor toms and an extra matching bass drum added. Nice drums, but as already stated, not a catalogued configuration.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 13 years ago
#13
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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From O-Lugs

Well, of course, I totally disagree with this sentiment, as a collector. I know all-too-well what people did back in the day, because I, too, come from back in the day. There's no mystery about the fact that people didn't pay much creedence to the catalog-depicted sets back then. But, sometimes, they did.There's no mystery to the fact that there were few (if any) drum collectors back then....thus no 'rules' for what was deemed as being valuable/desirable and what wasn't as far as drums and drum sets were concerned. But, now, decades later, things are different. Why?One reason is that people will always want what they can't have anymore -ALWAYS. And since Asia has dominated manufactured goods for so long, we don't even have the choice to get something like a vintage set of American-made drums. So, guess what people want, now?And, now, in response to that desire, there is a collecting game going on. You can choose to play or not, but there are some 'rules' as to what-is-what.It makes ZERO difference what people ordered/didn't order back in the day. It's a moot point what they did back then. It was a different mindset altogether. Having said that, the deal is this, nowadays..... Whatever sets were ordered to match something that Ludwig(for example) put out in a catalog and managed to survive, intact and in great condition for all the intervening years, is what holds premier status in the collecting world, in most cases. There are exceptional kits that don't follow the catalog provenance -celebrity configurations and things like that. But there are separate collectors who specialize in that separate facet of collecting, too, and they are also very particular about provenance.There can be 10 million customer-ordered, non-catalogued, un-named drum sets out there in the world and maybe only 10 of them are just like the catalog-depicted ones. Guess which ones the collectors will want? And that's the game -getting to those hard-to-attain, desirable examples in as excellent a condition as possible.Being specific about drum configuration names and sizes, numbers, etc. is what it's all about for some people. It happens all across the board in the world of collectibles. It's part of the fun. It is for me, anyway. It's part of the challenge to the collecting game. Not everyone plays....but I do. If anything, in some case, I wish I'd been more specific about some drums, before I laid my money down...but, oh, well. That's part o the game, too. You win some. You lose some.There's nothing wrong with being specific in the world of collecting. You have to have a foundation. The old catalogs and names now serve a new purpose in defining some ground rules.Violin

here here oh to have my ol numbers matching 67 camaro verse a race mod version that i see all over the place, like gto clones just don't have the power a real judge does so yes i put my down beat kit together with different serial not all sequenced drums but my keystone mint late pink champagne holly woods are my museum set all matching one day maybe ill sell it for my daughters post collage fund i wonder how rare it will be in 12 or 15 years

1 attachment
April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 13 years ago
#14
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I don't know what to call the drums, but I know what to call this thread...LONG-WINDED!

Jeezzzzz, I thought I was full of hot air!...I bow Bowing to old guys that keep their concentration level that long...huh..."Ha Ha Ha...I love Tom & Jerry!...Ha Ha Ha...Jerry's Uncle singing Crambo & jerking Tom's whiskers off really cracks me up!!!!"....huh, oh sorry what was I saying?.................is it time for my Meds?????....COOOL!

Later Guys

"Play the drum...don't let it play you" - Max Roach

1968, 1974 & 1984 Rogers Dyna•Sonic COB
1971, 1976 Slingerland GK Sound King
1973 Slingerland Festival
1920's-40's Slingerland (US Military) Field Snares (6)
19?- Ludwig Field Snare (US Marines)
1960's Premier Gold Glitter Student Snare kit
1960's-? MIJ Snares (way-way too many)
Posted on 13 years ago
#15
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From fungus amungus

I don't know what to call the drums, but I know what to call this thread...LONG-WINDED!Jeezzzzz, I thought I was full of hot air!...I bow Bowing to old guys that keep their concentration level that long...huh..."Ha Ha Ha...I love Tom & Jerry!...Ha Ha Ha...Jerry's Uncle singing Crambo & jerking Tom's whiskers off really cracks me up!!!!"....huh, oh sorry what was I saying?.................is it time for my Meds?????....COOOL!Later Guys

Tom and Jerry were cool; but I am a Rocky and Bullwinkle guy myself!!!!

I say the kit's name is Tarshawniel!!!

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 13 years ago
#16
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From bunnyman

Tom and Jerry were cool; but I am a Rocky and Bullwinkle guy myself!!!!I say the kit's name is Tarshawniel!!!

I say go Snoop Dog on it & call it "'da Shizzle Bizzle"..un huh - un huh...goin down town gonna meet my gal...un huh un huh...gonna sing her a song, gonna show her my ding dong....damn, I just went rapping Cheech & Chong blues...I gotta quit drinking these Colt 45 40's...screw Billie D!...they just don't mix well with Xanax!...un huh - un huh............

"Play the drum...don't let it play you" - Max Roach

1968, 1974 & 1984 Rogers Dyna•Sonic COB
1971, 1976 Slingerland GK Sound King
1973 Slingerland Festival
1920's-40's Slingerland (US Military) Field Snares (6)
19?- Ludwig Field Snare (US Marines)
1960's Premier Gold Glitter Student Snare kit
1960's-? MIJ Snares (way-way too many)
Posted on 13 years ago
#17
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From fungus amungus

I say go Snoop Dog on it & call it "'da Shizzle Bizzle"..un huh - un huh...goin down town gonna meet my gal...un huh un huh...gonna sing her a song, gonna show her my ding dong....damn, I just went rapping Cheech & Chong blues...I gotta quit drinking these Colt 45 40's...screw Billie D!...they just don't mix well with Xanax!...un huh - un huh............

Y'all's gottsa to move up to PRE-MI-UM malt likka- like Schlitz Ice or King Cobra!!!

I serenade my girl with Barry White. Yes, my voice gets THAT low!!! I can even let go of the accent for DAT SONG!!! I serenaded a black girl at her wedding "You're My First, You're My Last, You're My Everything" and her bridesmaids wanted to be the Love Unlimited Choir!!!! Her man wanted to kick my ass, but the DJ loved it!!!!

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 13 years ago
#18
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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I loved the old Rocky and Bullwinkle Show....Green acres....Gilligan.....Andy Griffith....

As far as being long-winded. yes, I confess. I try to avoid making long posts, in general, but sometimes I bite my tongue so much I end up needing to set the record straight every now and then.

*going back into tongue-biting mode*

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 13 years ago
#19
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From bunnyman

Y'all's gottsa to move up to PRE-MI-UM malt likka- like Schlitz Ice or King Cobra!!!I serenade my girl with Barry White. Yes, my voice gets THAT low!!! I can even let go of the accent for DAT SONG!!! I serenaded a black girl at her wedding "You're My First, You're My Last, You're My Everything" and her bridesmaids wanted to be the Love Unlimited Choir!!!! Her man wanted to kick my ass, but the DJ loved it!!!!

Yeah, that's what the Malt Likkor told you what happened...I'm sure the Wedding Photographer has evidence to prove otherwise...unless, a certain floppy eared individual got to his film canister! Yes Sir

"Play the drum...don't let it play you" - Max Roach

1968, 1974 & 1984 Rogers Dyna•Sonic COB
1971, 1976 Slingerland GK Sound King
1973 Slingerland Festival
1920's-40's Slingerland (US Military) Field Snares (6)
19?- Ludwig Field Snare (US Marines)
1960's Premier Gold Glitter Student Snare kit
1960's-? MIJ Snares (way-way too many)
Posted on 13 years ago
#20
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