It's seem real because it is real... Philly died in 1985 so with no date stamp on photo or visible badges it's possible this kit is SSB era which Gretsch did offered natural maple drum sets as seen in all catalogs after 1969.

That's what I'm working on trying to establish if Gretsch actually did produced a natural maple RB kit from 1960 to 1969.

Philly Joe had quite the hippie look going by the SSB era, unlike in this photo. The Gretsch BD logo is in the RB spot. The style of HH stand was out of use by most drummers by the mid-'60s. The photo was taken by Ray Avery and he archived it in his "1960s" collection. Ray's caption for the photo is "Philly Joe on a 1960s record date." Also there's the aforementioned micro on the snare.

With the maple veneer on this set, it would have to have been stripped of its wrap, and then had the veneer applied. While anything's possible, I'd have a hard time buying that.

I can't argue his look by 1970 but this photograph still doesn't establish the theory that Gretsch made natural maple Gretsch RB drum sets.

Now, I totally understand that most natural maple RB kits we see in these old photographs belong to now dead jazz players so asking them is impossible BUT their are always those younger people mainly kids who beg and beg mom & dad to death to buy them drum kits just like Ringo Starr's kit....so hundreds of Ludwig black oyster pearl kits and snare drums were sold just to be like Ringo.... so, I am absolutely bewildered that nobody black or white ever wanted to be like Philly and bug mom & dad for a natural maple Gretsch RB drum set like his to tell about it long after the legends have gone? Not one kit or original owner has stepped up.

I know. All I can think is that the veneer process was expensive and Gretsch only did it under very special circumstances. What gives me hope that a kit will surface is that I had never seen a real '60s Slingerland natural maple kit like Roy Haynes' or Marty Morell's, and an original '61 18-12-14 kit finally surfaced with maple veneers. Really hope a similar Gretsch kit shows up some day.

Only time will tell... so maybe one day we will be blessed with such a rare gift.

But we've established that the finish would've had to be special ordered - big moolah - and as mentioned, the customer would have to know they could ask.

I think the whole Ringo phenomenon was so far removed from anything you'd find in jazz, or anywhere really; your scenario doesn't seem bewildering to me. Mind you, if even only twenty kids bugged mom and dad, and were successful, you'd think one kit would've shown up by now....or maybe not. :)

These are just "points of order", I have no Gretsch history knowledge.

Mitch

No we have NOT established one could buy a natural maple finish RB drum set thru special order during the 1960 to 1969 from Gretsch.

Absolutely nowhere on this site or on any other site has this been established with solid documentation. Not even Gretsch can establish this because they don't know either so all these internet armchair quarterbacks flood the web with unsupported information.

But, I'm not mad or going crazy over this just very frustrated hearing about unsupported claims or seeing more photos of suspicious natural maple RB drum sets that are floating around the internet especially the ones that belonged to famous drummers and was used in Gretsch advertisements. Sure they look nice and know, I absolutely love natural maple kits that why I'm searching for answers.

And remember "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" so my point about kids buying Ringo kits back in the days was clearly a example... hell even adults drummers today still buy drum sets to idealize somebody they envy so it's not just kids of the 1960s...

So, with that said, I'm still bewildered why nobody in the private sector didn't buy a REAL natural maple RB kit to be like any particular jazz drummer???... not one REAL kit/owner has stepped up (preferably with natural maple RB kit in hand) to tell their story how they just had to have them!

But when Gretsch finally wise-up and offered a wood finish they started off with a walnut finish in 1969 as seen in factory catalog #44 and added natural maple later in 69-1970 during the SSB period.

"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own!"

a one liner comeback that basically means that you're right and the other person is wrong. the 'realities' being the varying opinions in the argument/conversation

i reject your reality and substitute it with my own (i refuse to accept that you are right so i will change your point to mine)

Cool Dude

I have no horse in this race, so I'll leave you two fine gentlemen to it. :) I just figured it was a given at least a couple guys would have special ordered a maple kit. Maybe not though...

Mitch