Thanks for indulging my somewhat off-topic query. Makes sense that Phil would be using a kit from the 50s as he did not have a ton of cash at the time. In fact well into Lamb Lies Down touring he is using some pretty dismal reso heads and what looks like the same kit covered in white Mac Tac lol.
It also looks like gold lugs on the Cameo Coral kit there - was that a thing?
Mitch
I checked out the Genesis Live 1972 video on YouTube and I think that may be a Tony Williams Yellow set Phil is playing. No clue as to why the lugs appear gold.
I checked out the Genesis Live 1972 video on YouTube and I think that may be a Tony Williams Yellow set Phil is playing. No clue as to why the lugs appear gold.
Cool thanks. Based on the two new pics I attached, I was always convinced it was a blonde wood finish, and therefore always wanted that finish....for the wrong reason! But like I say sometimes his kit looked wrong for maple finish.
If I understand what's going on here, you're trying to establish that there were Gretsch natural maple kits extant before the finish was offered officially in the catalog, am I right? But isn't it the case that bigwigs could always order whatever they wanted? So naturally [pun intended] some of them would see a natural maple kit from another manufacturer and ask Gretsch to make one for them?
IOW I think your point is valid and possibly obvious....
Mitch
Please, please, please let's try our best not talk about this natural maple RB bop kit. This photo was taken some 10 or 15 years ago.... about the time we became drum educated... thanks to the internet.
Her claim being ultra rare will not fly today. Why?
Because unfortunitly this RB bop kit was and still today is considered suspect and possibly a STRIPPED kit. Way back several years ago, I called on this RB kit and I received way too many unanswered questions. Absolutely no documents or proof to back it up so even today in 2015, I will say this; Gretsch never NEVER offered a natural maple drum set during the RB era from 1960 to 1969. It wasn't until 1969 when Gretsch finally offered a wood finish on drum sets which was walnut finish and not a maple finish unit the possibility later part of 1969 when SSB badge change.
I will say this; Gretsch never NEVER offered a natural maple drum set during the RB era from 1960 to 1969.
Please clarify your definition of "offered".
If I understand what's going on here, you're trying to establish that there were Gretsch natural maple kits extant before the finish was offered officially in the catalog, am I right? But isn't it the case that bigwigs could always order whatever they wanted? So naturally [pun intended] some of them would see a natural maple kit from another manufacturer and ask Gretsch to make one for them?IOW I think your point is valid and possibly obvious....Mitch
You got it! Anyone (not just "bigwigs") could get a RB "polished maple" kit if they were aware that it was available and their Gretsch dealer was willing to work it out directly with the factory. So they may be rare but they did exist and are probably out there to be found. Fred Gretsch is quoted as saying that during that period they were basically a custom shop and would produce almost anything a customer wanted.
There are enough photos and videos around of Gretsch RB natural maple kits that I wouldn't feel confident in stating that Gretsch "never" offered them.
The natural maple kit in the pic of Philly Joe playing in the studio always seemed like a real set to me, and not stripped or refinished. It's not 100% proof of anything, but it's definitely enough in my book to keep me from claiming that Gretsch "never" offered natural maple. There are no badges visible, but RB is implied from Philly Joe's probably age in the photo, as well as the micro strainer on the snare.
I also agree that Larry Bunker's kit was natural maple.
One thing I just noticed in the pic of Philly Joe is what appears to be a veneer seam on the small tom, near the muffler knobs. I've seen the same thing on '60s Slingerland natural maple kits, and it would explain why there's no cross-lamination visible on the shells. The same type of veneer seam is visible on the 14x14 of Cherie's kit.
Yes, as far as I understand it, I will contiune to say NEVER until something changes.
But, I will agree we have seen TONS of old photographs and advertising of possible genuine natural maple RB kits but please keep in mind we have seen ZERO official Gretsch documents etc to back this theory up with.
And keep in mind that absolutely nobody has produced one in real-time or come forward with a REAL documented natural maple Gretsch RB kit yet (for us to review) to this very day because 99.9% of all natural maple Gretsch RB kits we see that pops up in 2105 all have been stripped or suspicious, etc.
Even Charlie Watts's who owns & plays the most active duty natural maple Gretsch RB kit to this day has been stripped... so why can't all the other kits flotting around in RB natural maple be stripped ones too?
Yes, as far as I understand it, I will contiune to say NEVER until something changes.
I see what you're saying. However, to say "never" implies that you have 100% indisputable proof that Gretsch never made one of these kits during the RB era. I would like to see such proof. If you are going to place the burden of proof on us to provide evidence of such a kit, then it should also work the other way to have to prove that such a kit was never produced.
