airborne - Not your fault! It's an age thing! You say the name 'Dylan' to a crowd of 20/30 year olds and they automatically think of your guy. Say the name 'Dylan' to anyone over 40 and they automatically think you're talking about 'Bob Dylan'. Generation gap! lol
John
It's nice being a Lion in the music Jungle. A lot of laying about during the midday sun.
Yeah the snare on its side no big deal - BUT....it was just on its side on top of a bunch of cables and such. Seems to me if someone let me use their kit I would not treat their gear like that. I hear you on folks taking advantage of your back line. That would tick me off also. Overall is it worth the time and money to put in a kit to provide backlines? I had thought about it with the vintage gear but would only feel ok providing "players" grade stuff.
I rent all sorts of Backline, however, it is drums that make the most $$. For me, a typical rental kit would be a kick, 4 x toms, 3 x snares, 2 x kick pedals, 2 x hi-hat stands, 6 x boom stands a set of cymbals and new heads all around. It takes about 90 min to put on new heads, tune and check the gear. That is a decent amount of gear and the cases cost as much as the drums, but when I compare that investment to a $3,000 keyboard in a $500 case, the drums pay about twice as much. Almost three times as much as a $2,000 amp in a $450 case. So yeah, the rentals are worth it.
I got into vintage drums a.) for the nostalgia and b.) because I thought guys would love renting vintage player's kits. I have had lots of guys tell me they would love to have a vintage kit, however, over the past 5 years the only vintage item I have rented is a 20" Slingerland kick from 1962. It's gone out as a single 3 or 4 times. Otherwise people request my DW, Yamaha and Spaun kits.
> Otherwise people request my DW, Yamaha and Spaun kits.
What has happened to good taste in drums? Nothing modern, unless intentionally built that way, sounds as good as a quality vintage set of drums with aged wood shells. I'll put up my 4-ply Jasper Camco shells and edges against -any- modern drum you want to pick. Today, I think it's much more about 'who' plays them, as opposed to 'how good they sound'!
Spaun? They might be louder, but they will never -sound as good- as a 58' 3-ply Gretsch kit. Some modern/younger drummers need to edjumacate themselves about the old stuff!
John
I honestly love my Sonor Prolites and SQ2 over my vintage gear. Granted their shell composition is a "vintage" shell setup. Thin shells with maple re-rings and made my Sonor sounds great in my book. Of all the vintage kits I have my Rogers gives all drums a run for their money. I do agree though there is a level of mojo and soul that vintage gear has over new gear. Problem with modern drums is you can't really "hear" the differences in drums. Listening to Jazz and recordings of days past I can typically guess the drums they are using.
You know I wonder what happened to the gap when it comes to Jakob Dylan. The Wallflowers are a great band yet you don't hear much about them. I honestly knew who Bob Dylan was since I was about 11. I started listening to 30's Jazz, Zep, Rush, the Stones, and old Genesis (Foxtrot and such) when I was about 10. I really got into Zep a lot and that is what started me out on drums. So I guess I am unusual in that respect for my age group.
I am content with where I am drumming career wise at this stage. I get to play for several bands, have fun and sometimes make money.
Manny
Manny - the remark about modern/younger drummers was not directed at you. I hope you didn't read anything personal into it. I was talking to Scott (Tnsquint) about the young bucks who rent his kits. The stuff they ask for is not the best sounding stuff that Scott has made available to them. That's why I commented that they need to be educated about vintage gear. Nothing personal was intended toward you.
John
Manny - the remark about modern/younger drummers was not directed at you. I hope you didn't read anything personal into it. I was talking to Scott (Tnsquint) about the young bucks who rent his kits. The stuff they ask for is not the best sounding stuff that Scott has made available to them. That's why I commented that they need to be educated about vintage gear. Nothing personal was intended toward you.John
John,
No offense taken at all! Yeah a lot of these young kids get sold on "hype" and buy whatever they see some guy playing in a music video because that means its the best. There are far too many vintage kits and gently use pro kits of various brands out there that sound great. Its sad to see kids spend way too much money on drum gear that like you said does not live up the the hype. I would put my Rogers kit against most any modern drum brand any day of the week. On my recent gig I used a 60's Gretsch Snare over my custom made $1500 snare so that should say something.
Funny thing is with modern drums a higher price does not always equal a better sounding drum. I have a run of the mill Mapex black panthe snare I bought a few years ago. I think I paid like $200 but I love the dam thing. It always sounds good and after swapping factory heads for some Evans I have done nothing to it.
So here is me with "Dylan" using my '67 Club Dates and a '67 Acro. Looking back I think my Gretsch snare or Supra would have been better.
> No offense taken at all!
Cool! I like you and I wouldn't want you to think I was being critical of you at all. You made an important point about modern custom drums that a lot first time buyers blow right past... you can never get back what you put in on a re-sale. DW is kind of an exception to the rule. But buying drums from companies like Spaun and others of that ilk that charge north of $2000 for a custom kit, turns out to be a real burn when the guy tries to resell them and has trouble finding somebody who is willing to give them $600 for the same kit a year later.
Drums are a matter of personal taste. To my ears, most modern kits all sound the same to me. And as you already mentioned, vintage kits have a sound and character that is all their own and different from one another. I like that kind of variety and choice as a drummer. Not so with a modern DW or other kit. What you hear is what you get... over and over again regardless of manufacturer.
John
> Otherwise people request my DW, Yamaha and Spaun kits. What has happened to good taste in drums? Nothing modern, unless intentionally built that way, sounds as good as a quality vintage set of drums with aged wood shells. I'll put up my 4-ply Jasper Camco shells and edges against -any- modern drum you want to pick. Today, I think it's much more about 'who' plays them, as opposed to 'how good they sound'! Spaun? They might be louder, but they will never -sound as good- as a 58' 3-ply Gretsch kit. Some modern/younger drummers need to edjumacate themselves about the old stuff!John
Well it is not quite that simple John. The reality is, if an artist (and they are certainly not all young bucks) put DW Collectors, Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute, etc. in their contract rider, they know what they are getting, or at least they should. If you were to actually specify a vintage kit, you would be hard pressed to get one and, if you did, who knows what condition it would be in? The reality is the only way to use a vintage kit in this scenario is with contemporary hardware which a lot of guys bad mouth here, but they would be wrong. No one is going to want to have to deal with a vintage rail mount, an old Ludwig mount, thin, disappearing spurs or any hardware that Gretsch built. Therein lies the problem.
Now, if I had a stock of pristine players grade vintage kits that we are all completely reworked with current hardware, and edges that were trued up I might be able to create a following for some of the studio guys or studios in town, but they (in both cases) already have their gear. I could get a few rentals if I really pursued it but probably not much.
I also have to say that my Spaun kits are extremely well made and are probably the easiest toms I own to tune and a lot of guys really do like them. The toms seriously sing. The bass drums are a little thin though. And at this point I actually can tell the difference between my DW kits, Spaun kits and Yamaha kits sonically without looking. They do sound quite different to my ears. Now, to be fair, I work with some drummers that are really looking for a vintage drum sound whether they know it or not and often, the kits they own really do not do the warm vintage tone.
I do like my vintage drums, but I cannot make any real money with them so that is not really why I have them. One thing I am going to do is finish a few orphan toms that I have (mostly Slingerland) and get them set up to where I can use legs or tom mounts with them as there is band after band that plays toms and bass drums downstage for a song or two. So eventually I will have a 14" 16" 18" 20" 22" 24" as well as a 28" Premier Scotch bass drum matched to finish. That will be fun.
Scott - Why not go for a Hal Blaine tom set-up from Jerry? You can add any snare or bass drum to them and have an 'instant custom kit' built to kill.
Thanks for detailed response. You're 'in the business' so your observations and opinions carry a lot of weight. You said a mouthful when you mentioned that many drummers are looking for a vintage sound without knowing it. I was just surprised there isn't a higher demand for the vintage stuff, based on quality of sound alone.
I'm just an old fahrt stuck in his old-fashioned ways...
John
