And tonight, I will be drinking a 2007 vintage Shiraz from California.

OK. I said in my previous post, ‘semantics aside’ – but let’s put this issue to bed once and for all: What is Vintage?

It doesn’t, as is commonly believed, mean ‘quality’ in the wine industry; although it does derive from viticulture: namely, vindemia, meaning ‘to take off the vine’, and colloquially becomes the year of production.

So, vintage literally means ‘the year the item was produced’; I am sure you are all familiar with the term ‘an exceptional vintage’? Well, that is precisely where it comes from.

None of this helps the drummer’s issue though, does it? The reason for that is because, etymologically, we have misappropriated the term ‘vintage’. This is why no one can settle on a universally acceptable definition.

Back in the early nineteen-seventies, the elder-statesmen of the percussion world began to bemoan the passing of what they considered to be superior quality manufacturing, and, concomitantly, sound. It was then common knowledge that ‘round badge’ Gretsch drums or pre. CBS Rogers, for example, were a breed apart from the contemporary offerings in terms of sound quality. They sought out these vintages with the intention of playing them, entirely because of said superior sound. I hasten to add that, almost without exception, none of these players were involved in the Rock or Pop industries, and had precious little time for the young whippersnappers currently playing the day’s fashionable offerings, and co-incidentally, taking their gigs off them. Alongside this was the interest of a select few that extended to what could only be classified as antique curios, such as Leedy, W.F.L. or Ludwig & Ludwig. For the most part, they never had any intention of playing these drums, they were purely collector’s items; although, inevitably, many ignored the destructive elements of performance and took them out on the road. And that, Gentlemen, is it. Not So Modern Drummer appeared to cater to the cravings of this esteemed group of players, along with a similar periodical in the UK; and this fraternity of like minded individuals commandeered the term Vintage to encapsulate the objects of their attentions, in the same way as the automobile aficionados initially used it to refer to cars made between 1919 and 1930. So originally, it was all about sound, or curiosity value; although inevitably, the finish of these drums exemplified their character and became synonymous with their value. Consequently, if we are going to continue to employ the term ‘Vintage’ on the basis of its original adoption, then we must, strange as seems to me, consider Yamaha RCs or CBS Rogers along with DeQueen Gretsch as vintage if we believe they posses distinctive and superior sound qualities. Furthermore, and to me, equally strangely, curiosities from the Far East must be accepted as antiques and given shelter under the common canopy of our colloquial ‘Vintage’. Equally valid would be the prediction that Noble & Cooley, for example, will one day soon enjoy the ‘Vintage’ moniker if we are to continue to employ the term on the basis of its original espousal. I look forward to your slings and arrows.

Only kudos from me.

Vinho do Porto ... exception

demere - to take off

Etymology will only take you so far ... word meanings morph with societal shifts - computer, ***, smoke, buzz ...

Current meaning includes (lifted from a random dictionary) - denoting something of high quality, esp. something from the past or characteristic of the best period of a person's work.

noun

the year or place in which wine, esp. wine of high quality, was produced.

• a wine of high quality made from the crop of a single identified district in a good year.

• poetic/literary wine.

• the harvesting of grapes for winemaking.

• the grapes or wine produced in a particular season.

• the time that something of quality was produced : rifles of various sizes and vintages.

adjective

of, relating to, or denoting wine of high quality : vintage claret.

" This is why I have to disagree and leave it all at that. My understanding of the word is evidently quite a bit different than others. That's a semantic disagreement that cannot be resolved. Therefore, we agree to disagree. "

I don't think the term Vintage was mentioned as a factor in the poll.......

Typical lagniappe. I saw something shiny ... and made the mistake of posting an 'opinion' in post number 18. Silly me.

A "little something extra" mon ami?

:)

Cajun French ... good job, Kev!

Ok, I skipped over all the other posts as the arguments over what's vintage and what's not is moot to me.

I picked 1946-prior....why? they are the most collectible in my eyes and from the limited ones I've played...they just sound AMAZING. Which is what I though what this poll thread was supposed to be about.....what era do you like best....no where did i read anything about what is vintage and what is not....

:2Cents:

My posting was in response to the above comment, which had a distinctly didactic air about it. I felt that his was not the gospel according to fact, but personal opinion; so while we were in didactic mood, I set out the gospel according to the facts. If anyone wants to argue with my facts then we can further this issue and maybe reach a final resolution, because so many posts have discussed the absolute meaning of 'vintage' as it applies to drums. I felt it necessary to move beyond opinions and into the realm of reality. I am hoping everyone out there will either correlate or debunk my dissertation by declaring my facts as actual or incorrect, and, again hopefully, positing an agreeable alternative. So far, all I've seen are criticisms of my effort rather than discusions about the content of my posting. I was expecting a little more of the slings and a little less arrows.