of course any drums can sound great,its only our vintage drum snobbery that prevents us from admitting it.just dont tell anyone!

Aw come on,

Most competent drummers can get a decent sound, sure. But I expect most competent drummers who have put in some time on the instrument have also played a few dogs.

For instance I have a little Pacific snare that came with a bunch of other stuff that just does nothing for me at all, and a nice old (1957) Olympic that is similarly unthrilling--albeit full on charming to look at.

Then there are drums that if you started a separate thread would be fairly divisive re their sound. Free Floaters are a yin/yang type drum where some favour them and others don't.

I basically take the premise that "you can make any drum sound good" with a grain of salt.

Some dogs are dogs,

cheers,

Patrick

Yes that is a fact, any drum can be made to sound good.

Unlike cymbals.

But much of the equation is indeed the player. So, if anyone is reading this, then please, if you're considering a cheap set of drums, DON'T BUY A NEW China-made SET! Get a used set made in Taiwan or if you're lucky, USA.

So the assumption that vintage drum nuts wouldn't like to admit this is erroneous. Lots of really cheap drums Made in China may actually have more exacting detail than a really old drum from the 60s.

That gets me to my last point.

Have you ever watched a documentary or National Geographic show where they show the natives--with their untouched pre-historic technology--playing their drums? That's what you should get from even the newest most-perfect drum. There should be some of the ancient shining through. And those drums were made from natural materials, hollowed out tree trunks, etc.

Any ideas to the contrary is either modern drum company marketing BS, or elitist drum owners rationalizing to justify their most recent mega-buck new-drumset purchase.

i totally agree with the last comment,drum snobbery is rife and im the biggest one for it,oh im sure my 64 gretsch sounds better than his 79 kit. im talking about using my kit to earn my wages and as much as i love my ludwig, my cheapo taiwan premier wipes the floor with it on the stage,sorry

Unless there's something you're not revealing, you've definitely chosen incorrectly your heads and tensioning variables for the Ludwig kit.

dont get me wrong,the ludwig sounds and looks great but then so does the premier and that doesnt go bouncing across the floor.i love vintage drums,thats why im an owner and a member of this forum but i feel a lttle real world drumming is missing and snobbery is abundant

Please don't take this wrong. I'm not picking a fight. I'm just clearing away any gray areas that might exist.

Speaking as an owner of pretty much every major (and quite a few minor) brand of drums out there at one time or another over the past 45 some-odd years, ...

...for me, it's not snobbery when I say with conviction my Slingerlands perform better than most any other kit I've ever owned. That includes the hardware. My ears are my guide. Everyone has a set of ears and they listen to their own. Snobbery does not enter in to the equation. I buy what I want and if it doesn't perform well, out it goes. If it does, I hang on to it for a season and then let it go. In the past four years alone, I've gone through more than two dozen kits. Some were vintage and some were new. Some were high end and some were gigging kits. Through the years, I've owned - Gretsch, Ludwig, Slingerland, Premier, Rogers, Mapex, Tama, Yamaha, Stingray, Remo, Pearl, Fibes, Punkinator, DW, Sonor, Peavey ... heck, I even had a custom built Roland kit, complete with DW stands. There are others, I'm sure, that I've forgotten on this list. But, the fact is, I've owned most every makers high end kit. I'm not jaded and I'm certainly not being snobbish when I lean toward my Slingerland kits. They are just that good to my ears. They make the sounds that my ears like. I don't have any issues with the hardware. Shoot, Yamaha's mounts are bouncier than anything vintage. My stuff stays put. The resonance is superb on these drums. They flat out booooom.

If you take the time to find the right heads and tweaking for the drum and the room you're playing, ... it's magic.

mj i have to acknowledge your wide experience of many kits,as a working drummer ive had a few myself though cant claim to have had as many kits as you.i stand by my claim though that in a club,playing at volume you might as well be playing anything as long as its set up and tuned well. acoustically my ludwig in a smokey jazz club will sound great but miked up and in a normal club gig my premier rings the bell,and that thing is a pile of poop!

Obviously different situations will reveal different aspects of your drums. And the miking in a club often yields the best results with otherwise-non-resonant and thuddy sets of tubs. I already addressed the fact that newer designs have resulted in more exacting details. So you're left with tuning, bearing edges, and other factors that have little or nothing whatsoever to do with the make or model of the drum.

You sound like you're trying to get a rise out of someone by calling your Ludwig drums no good.

The bass drum across the floor can be addressed with velcro, and or a hoop-mounted front spurs. But almost every brand of 60s drums have a similar spurs setup and are prone to moving across the floor. That's a hardware design issue.

Another thing that can help prevent bass creep is if your bass pedal is somehow attached to the floor. DWs with the floor plate have velcro, that's really effective, along with the spurs on the bass pedal.

I have never asserted that vintage drums sound better. I have voiced my agreement that all things being equal, any drum can be made to sound great under any circumstances, unless, the hardware or drum isn't functional.

Is Premier still making drums? Has the British government stepped in to help?

I play in several bands, and a jazz quartet, I also do some recording. I'm playing 2 or 3 gigs a week normally, although sometimes I have busy months,

(April - 27 gigs). With that said, I too find that with the exception of the Jazz gigs, I prefer a less expensive, newer kit, for blues and rock.

When I play traditional Jazz I like to use vintage cymbals, and vintage drums, I love the sound, and the feel, and emotionally I feel like I'm connecting with some of my favorite drummers from the 50s and 60s playing the same sizes and kind of drums and cymbals that they played. I think about kind of "channelling" those drummers.

Still for several years I played a Gretsch Catalina Club kit 18/14/12, for jazz gigs and surprisingly I got many compliments on the sound, and particularly remember one of the best jazz bassists in town who raved about the drum sound. He was surprised to find that it was an inexpensive newer kit. Tuning and heads, and of course I was using a 60s Gretsch COB snare and some great vintage cymbals certainly helped but I didn't get that "channeling" feeling until I replaced it with a vintage ludwig 20/14/12.

I wouldn't think of using a vintage kit for some of the rock and blues gigs that I play. First because of the wear and tear of set up take down, transporting, and the occaisional careless bass player spilling a beer, or knocking over a guitar on my bass drum. I've played at some real rough places.

But also though, I find that set-up and take down, is easier, and faster, (memory locks etc.) and I feel a little more secure that things will stay put, with a newer kit.

I played rock and blues with a 60s ludwig 22/13/16 for several years, eventually switched to a Tama Swingstar for the really rough places, and sometimes pull out my Yamaha maple custom absolutes for higher profile gigs.

I think some of it is a very personal preference, almost a "spiritual" thing.

Even if no one notices, if your drums sound great to you, you play better, and with more heart. But you need to be practical and use the tool you feel is right for the job.

(p.s. I'm usually disappointed if I go to see a great local jazz player and he uses a cheap newer set)