Hi again forum...my drum has arrived so ive added some more pics..now im totaly confused , looks like a new drum apart from the extra holes , not sure if its a luddy throw, brass plate i don,t think is brass, don,t think its seventies luddy rims but the drum itself is fantastic sounds very sweet and crisp ..and i havn,t been abl to find anything about this drum anywhere it might be completely made up i just don,t know?

It looks like a Ludwig Rocker Brass shell that's been modified. I have a 3 x 13 Piccolo (metal shell version of Jazz-Combo) and it's Ludalloy, not brass.

Badges can be changed, that separate tag with the Ludwig etching and serial number is something I've never seen, it looks homemade.

Ludwig did make a piccolo in 3 x 13, but with all the mods, it may or may not be.

The lugs on 50's-70's Piccolos are completely different in design. The ones posted look like a much newer style.

The throw looks to be a Lud piccolo model. This looks more like a Monroe drum than a model from the 70s as they used some B/O badges without serial numbers. The "engraved" plate is stamped, not engraved. I would suggest emailing customer support at Ludwig and ask if this is a Monroe drum. It certainly looks it to me.

Thanks for all your replys guys ..i will take your advice on contacting ludwig , still open for any other thoughts ..im still a bit stumped with this drum it looks newish but was advertised as a 70s model , although i can,t think why anyone would go to all the trouble of faking something that was,nt actually around at the time but hey this will be the first for me , the drum itself is actualy really good ill see where i get to with it ...this is driving me a bit mad ,i know my vintage gretsch but not so much ludwig..the story continues............................................................................

Its very easy, it's called having some extra parts to make a couple of extra bucks. It's happening quite a bit, and yours, no offense, is not even a good fake.....you should see some of the stuff that's really well done..

I am no expert on the Monroe drums at all. If this is one, I would not know.

What I DO know is that it is NOT a 70's B/O badge. There are two little nibs on the edges of the real badges that are missing on that B/O badge in the picture.

Also, the internal side of the grommet isn't set the way a vintage grommet would be set.

The throwoff appears to be a generic Chinese-made thing.

I have never seen that type of Ludwig plaque before -on anything.

It looks like a Chinese-made drum. I have no idea if that's the way Ludwig is manufacturing things these days or not -but it wouldn't surprise me. I think that's what most every big-name manufacturer is doing.

I'm quite certain it's not a vintage drum of any kind -but definitely not a vintage Ludwig.

Roy Haynes preferred to use a 3 X 13 Jazz Combo model drum with his Jazzette kit. They did exist in the 70's -but your drum isn't one of them.

Click on this link:

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/jazzette.html

and page down until you get to the black Cortex Jazzette kit owned by Vincent Racaniello(sp?). Check out what a real vintage Ludwig Jazz Combo looks like!

I thought I had updated my earlier post...anyway, here is the link to the throw on your drum.

http://www.drummaker.net/1-800-NEW-DRUM/www.drummaker.com/FMPro?-db=dm%5fproducts.fp5&-format=detailpop.htm&-lay=cgi&-sortfield=name&Category=Strainers&-max=15&-recid=34152&-token.0=14454114&-find=

I know this is it, becauise I am looking for a reproduction or used, P-83 or Rapid strainer for a new project coming through. Man, when does it end??? The engraved plate on your drum is not engraved, it is stamped, and that may very well be a Ludwig, but it is very likely a Chinese made drum. I can buy those by the container with my name on them, as I have an in with a Chinese importer site and can get any grade of drum set avaible on the market at a steal. You would be amazed at what some of the mid-line drums actually cost, and how easy it would be to have John's Drums silk-screened on the heads......