I've had another good play of this enigmatic 64 Supra with COB hoops.

The current setup:

Coated Ambassador batter

RMV snare side (they're cheap here!)

Gibraltar generic wires

After suitably hammering it for an hour, I am actually starting to hear the Supra-ness come through. The thing about these hoops is that they are VERY DEEP, so rimshots are quite fat and pentrating. I tuned it up a bit and that familar Supra 'pop' is coming through; just a little darker. Indeed, as O-Rings says, it could be a case of apple and oranges.

Not to say I reneg on my original criticism of this drum, but is it possible that this drum needs to just be really PLAYED to warm it up? This is something I've noticed with my brand new Ludwig Classic Maples, including a Legacy Snare. After 6 months of playing, they are sounding, perhaps, rounder with more focussed tone. Am I sounding like a wanker? Am I deluded? Is this phenomenon the reason why we love vintage gear - because it has all been played in?

A colleague of mine, a great double-bassist named Frank Disario, bought his dream bass. In describing it, he said that the neck felt amazing, because it had the proverbial sh*t played out of it (sic), having been previously owned by a classical player. Can this also be true of vintage gear?

Perhaps the subject of another thread...

Thanks again for everyone's very helpful perspectives and responses.

And what a wonderful thread that would be!

You have probably just experienced "head and snare seating". That's a pretty quick adjustment, there. Your ears are adjusting, also. My guess is there is a difference in these two drums and your ears are adjusting to the pleasant nuances of the "new" one as you spend time dialing it in. Enjoy that beautiful instrument. It will play wonderfully once you iron out the head choice, tensioning, snare choice and adjustments, and such. I just looked at the picture again, Wow. Sweet drum.

I'm thinking that the difference is still in the choice of snare wires...all wires are NOT created equal....and the Gibraltars are about the worst. Try switching to puresounds or factory Ludwig snares....I'm sure you will find a HUGE difference in sound quality.......

Which Puresounds would you recommend for a 60s Supra?

It's widely known that wood instruments of all kinds which are NOT played tend to sound very different than those which ARE played, and played regularly. It has to do with the molecules in the wood. When an instrument sits for a long time and is not vibrating, the molecules tend to tighten up, making the instrument sound lifeless. When the wood is vibrating from fairly constant use, the molecules will stay lose and the sound of the instrument is warmer/deeper/sweeter.

I've seen this with piano's, guitars, etc... I would imagine that drums would really benefit from being played often as they vibrate more than most instruments.

Old growth and new growth wood is a factor as well, but that's when comparing vintage to new instruments.

I'm not sure how this would impact a metal shelled drum, but I guess it could apply. Maybe this Supra is a closet classic which hasn't been played in 40+ years. Keep banging on it every day and see if it gets more "Supra" like, in it's sound.

Metal vibrates too!!

You are absolutely right, BD. Just talk to a jazz drummer about their cymbals!

Whenever I have chosen a jazz ride, my consideration includes how the sound will develop with playing over time. ie. I think about its potential as well as its immediate sound and response.

BTW, your restoration projects are sight to behold. That Blackrolite looks stunning. I have a mint 68 Acro. They definitely have a vibe all their own.

(I am getting round to cleaning up that deep 68 Supra... My lord, it records well.)

I'd go with the custom series, 20 strand set. I have them on one of my classic maple Ludwigs and they greatly improved the sound over the generics that were fitted. Unfortunately the original Ludwig snares were damaged somewhere along the line and were replaced with cheap wires. All snare wires are NOT created equal....LoLoLoLo

While I agree with Ludwig Dude 110% on the snare wires, I have to say that my 70's Supra (just aquired w/the 70's Ludwig kit) is equiped with a set of "Made in Japan" snare wires which sound great.

Can't wait to get some PureSounds on it though!

Thanks for the kind words Loop!

First post here - hello everybody!

I too have a '64 Supra and I love it... paid $60 for it 30 years ago.

There should be a (heavy) fine for not using vintage Ludwig snares on an old Ludwig snare!

I would try and buy some old ones off of eBay.

I had a snare bed comparison test with my drum tech recently. We measured the snare beds of both of my 64 Supraphonics. This thread covers concerns with a late 1964 Supra. I have been comparing it to my other 1964 Supra with an earlier serial.

Here were the observations:

My early 64 snare had nearly 1mm deeper snare beds than the late 64 snare drum. The deeper bedded snare definitely has a greater resonance and sense of snare to head contact. The shallower bedded snare was drier, more 'thonky' depending on wires, hoops, and tuning, but definitely less snare response.

Since then, I have purchased a 1967 which is much closer to my original early 1964 Supra. I haven't yet measured snare beds, but this drum has much more of that 'Supra-ness' that one would expect, with slightly more woodiness and broadness. Possibly attributed to the original bottom head and wires.