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Why FIVE? Last viewed: 1 hour ago

Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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A big part of it is myth. And, I'm far from being a Luddie hugger. Everything is relative when it comes to less-than-perfect products to come out of a factory. A 1% defective product occurrence from a company that manufactured 10,000 drums would be 100 drums. Rate that against 50 pieces of defective product from a company that manufactured only 1,000 drums. The smaller company had 5% defective product or five times the defective product rate of the high volume manufacturer. Sure......the manufacturer strives for as close to zero per cent of production to be less than perfect. But, stuff happens. And, a lot of "defective" product is not defective at all, but not acceptable by a merchant or consumer who, for some reason, does not like the sound or the cosmetics or something else about an item that many other people will think is just fine.

The laptop computer I'm using to type this post was returned to the store by a consumer for some reason. The store's authorized service center checked it out, and found no problems. Since it had been sold once, unboxed, reboxed, and returned, it was available for less than half of the retail price with full manufacturer's warranty plus two more years of the retailer's warranty.

The company I worked for sells many thousands of guitars and amps in a year. The product failure rate is well below 1% for guitars, and almost as low for electronics. The quality control diligence is increased significantly when a new production line or hand work shop comes onboard. An increase in items rejected by the QC people is expected in the beginning. The stories of Ludwig's quality control issues immediately following the Beatles' appearance on Ed Sullivan make for entertaining reading. I suspect that there is more legend than fact in those stories.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 10 years ago
#21
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Thank you for the informative reply. Very interesting.

Though I have nothing to add, allow me to veer quickly OT and relate this since you mentioned laptops - two days ago my partner could not get hers to boot. She went online for answers, the whole 9 yards. It was to the point where removing the drive was next, just to retrieve data. Since we were at that point, I decided to apply the old "Mitch Perkins Computer Repair Method", aka - torture! You hit the boot button and just as it's starting up you turn it off, hold the button down, hit it repeatedly etc, basically pretend you're an ape playing with the thing. If it's a desktop/tower, I pull the power cord while booting up, again and again and again. All the worst stuff it feels like you should never do.

And it works. Every time. My theory is that since it does eventually boot, something was telling it not to, and by wreaking absolute havoc with the startup, you bypass that "bum command". The best part is, this is one of the extremely few instances where acting out your anger actually can have a positive outcome lol!

Mitch

Posted on 10 years ago
#22
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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I've had some success doing things like you described. I joke that I keep a full set of repair tools next to my computer to fix it if it will not behave. That set of tools is really just one tool............................................a hammer.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 10 years ago
#23
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I would like to say "QC" when the product is mostly hand made is a loose term.

My drop G badged Gretsch set (with five lug 12" Tom) has inconsistent staining, and the silver sealer sloppily painted at the bearing edges.

I put smooth white heads on to cover it up.

But I can tell this is a product made by humans and the world is imperfect.

So my Gretsch sounds differently then another's, and I tune it differently than another would.

It's ok.

I still love 'em.

And for now they are mine.

I like Drums...
1963 Ludwig Downbeat Champagne Sparkle
1964 Leedy (Slingerland) Blue n Silver Duco
1964 Ludwig Club Date Sparkling Silver Pearl
1966 Ludwig Super Classic Sparkling Silver Pearl
1968 Gretsch round badge modern jazz orange stain
1972 Slingerland 85N Pop outfit Light Blue Pearl
1976 Ludwig Vistalite clear
1981 Gretsch SSB Gran Prix Rosewood
1987 Yamaha Turbo Tour Custom Mellow Yellow
1991 Pearl Export Ferrari Red
Posted on 10 years ago
#24
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From leedybdp

A big part of it is myth. And, I'm far from being a Luddie hugger. Everything is relative when it comes to less-than-perfect products to come out of a factory. A 1% defective product occurrence from a company that manufactured 10,000 drums would be 100 drums. Rate that against 50 pieces of defective product from a company that manufactured only 1,000 drums. The smaller company had 5% defective product or five times the defective product rate of the high volume manufacturer. Sure......the manufacturer strives for as close to zero per cent of production to be less than perfect. But, stuff happens. And, a lot of "defective" product is not defective at all, but not acceptable by a merchant or consumer who, for some reason, does not like the sound or the cosmetics or something else about an item that many other people will think is just fine. The laptop computer I'm using to type this post was returned to the store by a consumer for some reason. The store's authorized service center checked it out, and found no problems. Since it had been sold once, unboxed, reboxed, and returned, it was available for less than half of the retail price with full manufacturer's warranty plus two more years of the retailer's warranty.The company I worked for sells many thousands of guitars and amps in a year. The product failure rate is well below 1% for guitars, and almost as low for electronics. The quality control diligence is increased significantly when a new production line or hand work shop comes onboard. An increase in items rejected by the QC people is expected in the beginning. The stories of Ludwig's quality control issues immediately following the Beatles' appearance on Ed Sullivan make for entertaining reading. I suspect that there is more legend than fact in those stories.

This has got to be one of the best post I've read here in a long time. Especially coming from someone who was actually in the business..

Posted on 10 years ago
#25
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From leedybdp

I've had some success doing things like you described. I joke that I keep a full set of repair tools next to my computer to fix it if it will not behave. That set of tools is really just one tool............................................a hammer.

Haha yep! They are surprisingly resilient, and even more surprisingly responsive to a whole host of "shade-tree mechanic" solutions. I find it helps to mutter phrases like, "Oh yeah pal? How do you like this eh? Who's [smack!] laughing [smack!] now?!" heh

Back on topic, interesting point about the drums being largely hand-made. One of those things you kinda know but don't register front-of-brain. As I've said, my Club Dates are a QC joke, alignment-wise, but I love em too, and for now they are mine....and soon they will be silver sparkle. :)

Mitch

Posted on 10 years ago
#26
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From johnnyringo

This has got to be one of the best post I've read here in a long time. Especially coming from someone who was actually in the business..

I agree there's nothing like hearing from someone who was there...

Mitch

Posted on 10 years ago
#27
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From orangemi

I've got a '79 set with the same tom holder on/in it's 8x12, great sounding drum as well. You might be surprised to know that "huge lump of metal" actually weighs slightly less than a YAMAHA pre-YESS tom mount.

Really? Cool.

The mount system looks awfully naive but it actually works really well. The tom sings away and stays put. They could of made a better BD mount for the tom posts, but I guess the company was taking a massive downturn in sales by then.

I would say the drums have a lovely thick creamy sound. I got them at mid-low tuning right now. They are really studio friendly.

40's Slingerland Radio King WMP
60's Ludwig Downbeat Silver Spark
70's Ludwig Super Classic White Marine
60's Gretsch RB Champaigne Spark
70's Rogers Big R Black
90's Sonor Hilite (Red maple)
00's DW Collectors Broken Glass
00's DW Jazz Series Tangerine Glass
10's DW Collectors (Acrylic) Matt Black Wrap
10's PDP Concept Wood Hoop kit (Maple)
Proud ambassador of the British Drum Company
Posted on 10 years ago
#28
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From DownTownFarmer

Respectfully, isn't the post-Beatles-on-Sullivan rush on Ludwigs and the resultant QC issues a well-documented phenomenon? What I mean is - I thought it was. :)Is it then just a widely accepted myth?Mitch

IMO the more important myth in this conversation is that drum bearing edges have to be sharp and even, and that shells must be totally in round, in order for a drum to sound good.

I've owned several 60's and early 70's Ludwig kits. They all had sloppy bearing edges, high or low spots from the factory, etc. The 60's ones were all out of round because of the way they put the wraps on.

None of these kits sounded bad as a result of this sloppiness. You'd never know these woodworking flaws existed by the sound.

60's Gretsch Progressive Jazz Green Sparkle
'61 Slingerland Bop Kit Sea Green Rewrap
Round Badge Bop Kit Clone Red Sparkle
'67 Pearl President 13/16/22 Red Oyster Pearl
Posted on 10 years ago
#29
Posts: 2753 Threads: 132
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From infiniteninjas

IMO the more important myth in this conversation is that drum bearing edges have to be sharp and even, and that shells must be totally in round, in order for a drum to sound good. I've owned several 60's and early 70's Ludwig kits. They all had sloppy bearing edges, high or low spots from the factory, etc. The 60's ones were all out of round because of the way they put the wraps on. None of these kits sounded bad as a result of this sloppiness. You'd never know these woodworking flaws existed by the sound.

Will you please stop making sense? Some folks here know that it's simply not possible to have good sounding drums in ideal configurations and positionings if they are imperfect in any way. I'm more than content with my long-standing philosophy that my drums do not adapt to me. I adapt to them. This has served me very well for many years.

No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
Posted on 10 years ago
#30
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