Hello everybody.I have question for Ludwig experts.I see here that some of the Ludwig Jazzete bass drums were 18x12".Was that common practice with Ludwig?Not 18x14?Why?Also,I have 1976 Ludwig catalogue,and there is not any 18" bas drum!Was Ludwig stop producing tham in 70's?Why?
Thank you
Dule
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This story gets complicated because there ARE Ludwig kits that have 18 X 14 inch bass drums. But, the Jazzette, specifically, has the shallower 18 X 12 inch bass drum.
I have seen more than one or two small Ludwig kits that have the 18 X 14 bass drums and they also many times have a bass drum mounted cymbal holder and an offset rail consolette. These factors set up an "argument" (so-to-speak) as to whether or not that kit can be called a "Jazzette" or a "Downbeat". Because a Downbeat has all those things described in the 18 X 14 setup, too -except for the 20 inch diameter. But other people just go by the bass drum diameter and call anything with an 18 inch bass drum a "Jazzette".
If you go by the "official" word, then a true Jazzette MUST have the 18 X 12 in bass drum, a center-mounted rail consolette and not have a bass drum mounted cymbal mount. But, having said that, there are always exceptions. For example, a true early Jazzette MUST be natural maple or natural mahogany finished shells. But, I have YET to actually see a mahogany Jazzette -the model they used in the catalog. One forum member here has seen one, but there are no pictures of it. So, the truest Jazzette kits are extremely rare - I mean extremely rare! And to find one in excellent condition that hasn't been "tampered" with or "customized", is even rarer.
Ludwig wasn't the popular bebop drum company. That honor went to Gretsch. So, rumor has it that Ludwig didn't sell too many Jazzette kits, overall. That's probably another reason you don't see too many floating around and being "recycled" on EBay. They simply are a very rare model of drum set in the real world.
In 1976, Ludwig changed their 3-ply shell layup and, in addition, quit advertising kits with 18" bass drums. As described, it was likely economics of the day. They just weren't big sellers for Ludwig at the time. 20 inch bass drums (and larger) were better sellers for Ludwig.
To answer why 12" deep as opposed to 14".......they used the 18" tenor marching tom shell, added the second head and called it a bass drum......mainly out of economy more than any other reaason.....use what they already make.....
Thank you for explanations,it is great,thank you again.I have a new question,consider what Ludwig dude said abot 12" tom(depth!) converted in bass drum.What about converted 18" floor toms i to bass drums.They are usualy deeper,18 x 16".Can the be "called" bass drums,because they are not factory made as bass drums?What is the diference when Ludwig take 12x18" tom and make a bass drum,and you and I take 18" floor and make a bass drum?
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What I meant was that Ludwig used the same shell for both drum types...not conversions.....
I am wondering if the 12x18 size was alao a request made by Roy Haynes. He was the catalyst for making the jazzette I believe. It would'nt surprise me if he wanted that size.
I have a factory 18x14 Ludwig thermo-gloss maple bass drum... it's a virgin as well, not a floor tom conversion. It's pretty rare and from the early 70's. Let me know if you are interested! Don't mean to be a used car salesman but since the subject was brought up...
Kurt,
The rumor I heard was that Roy Haynes was going to sign with Slingerland and that Bud Slingerland had agreed to make Roy a kit with an 18 X 12 bass drum. Then Bill Ludwig caught wind of the idea and got a hold of Roy. Ludwig made Roy Haynes a better deal and the rest is history. No way to confirm that without talking to Roy, himself, though, I guess.
Hello,I just find in 1963 Kudwig catalog pages,that Gold Coast set was with 12x18" bass drum,3 or 4 years before Jazzete.So,bass drum allready existed in 1967 or 1966 when Jazzete was offered?
Any comment?
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One last chime in on the Jazzette and the exceptions to the rule....I owned a Jazzette some years ago that my father ordered new for himself and later passed on to me. It was ordered in 1968 and he took delivery of it in January 1969. It was finished in the new Black Panther finish and it did have a shell mounted cymbal holder....he ordered it that way. And it was a true Jazzette....8x12 14x14 12x18 with a 5x14 supraphonic (which I still own) with one flat base cymbal stand one flat base snare stand and the 1123-1 hi-hat stand and a speed king. So, you could get it outfitted with a shell mounted cymbal holder if you ordered it that way....
