If you're asking about the modern Brass drum vs. a modern BB (seems things have been sidetracked to a discussion about vintage Supers, which are a much different animal) I don't think there is much of a difference. Both drums are nickel plated but the final layer of plating is different. One gets a translucent layer a chrome which protects the shiny nickel (which is actually the shiny surface you see) from tarnishing and gives it a bluish hue and the other gets an equally thin layer of chrome that has been altered to create the dark coloration. I don't see how this slight difference in two similar exterior coatings that are only a few molecules thick would have any great effect on the sound of a drum.

I know from experience that not all Supra drums sound the same even though they were made exactly the same and I'd guess that is the reason for the difference you noted between your drum and the black beauty you tried. I don't own either of these drums myself (I do have a COB Super) but from what I can see the only difference in two drum models made at roughly the same time would be the coloration of that very thin layer of chrome that each wears.

Very interesting point Kevin and thanks for sharing-makes total sense.

Wayne

Wow– so what you're saying is that they're the exact same drum? Why do they charge 200 dollars more for the Black Beauty? Is that slightly different coating really expensive? I would understand if there was like a $50 difference, but really?

I don't know if doing the black nickel is more expensive or not but my guess is that it isn't that much more. The primary reason that a black beauty costs more is probably because people will pay more. Worldmax sells shells in the same finish (as a matter of fact so does Ludwig) for a lot less so I don't think that process is all that much costlier than regular nickel chrome (which is the proper name for decorative chrome plating).

For a long time if you wanted a new brass "Supra" the only way to get it was to buy a Black Beauty. That, and the mystique about the name, is what drove sales, although Ludwig did stop making them for a number of years in the 80's due to low sales. So the BB became a premium drum and was priced accordingly. When they brought out the brass edition they couldn't really price it the same or real close to the BB or no one would buy it (when they could buy a BB for the same price). I'm guessing the profit margin on a BB is much better than that of a Brass Edition...or a regular Supra. As long as the "market" is willing to support that pricing...well why not.

So essentially, my 6.5x14 COB is a black beauty, and it would be silly to sell it and go pay more for a new black beauty. Right?

On the subject of Super Ludwigs – was the brass incredibly thick back then? What do you think the biggest differences are between new Ludwig brass and the supers?

As I mentioned (despite lusting after each model for years) I don't own either so it's tough to say but others who do own both have stated that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. I guess it all comes down to your ears. I doubt I could hear the difference although I'm sure there are others that can (or at least think they can).

The old Supers had their shells formed in a different way and have a welded seam in them and a different rolled bearing edge. I would guess the brass used was thicker back then but have not done a direct comparison. The lugs were cast with thicker walls at that time so there is more mass bolted to the shell. The snare beds are crimped (dented) in rather than the long, subtle, & barely visible beds on the spun "acoustiperfect" shells. The original hoops used at that time were made of brass rather than the steel hoops Ludwig has used since around 1965. All these details contribute in their own way to the sound of the drum so it's really quite a differently made drum from the modern ones despite outwardly looking roughly the same.

I would not be surprised that brass alloy composition for COB supra is different from the one of Black Beauty.

Certainly a possibility but I would think that production economics would dictate that they just have one type of brass "acoustiperfect" shell spun by their supplier and use it for all brass shelled supras. Using two different versions of the same metal would entail a lot of extra production costs that would hardly seem necessary.

For a time in the early 80's, when they introduced the bronze series of snare drums, the black beauty also used the same bronze shell. Again this was a cost saving measure from the standpoint of production. Some bronze shells were simply clearcoated while others got the black nickel plating and became Black Beauties. At the time Bill Ludwig II stated that no one could hear the difference between brass and bronze anyway so it wasn't a big deal. I'm sure many would beg to differ on that point, but it does show where the priorities lie on the other side of the fence.

That would make the price difference make sense – but remember, they're both stamped with a "BR" under the strainer these days, and I tend to think that's for the benefit of workers in the factory to tell the difference between Ludalloy and brass after the bare shells have been nickel (chrome) plated. You'd think they'd be stamped differently if one brass shell was meant to be different than another.

I'm just pulling that info out of my butt, though.

I can't imagine that Ludwig wouldn't play up the fact in their advertising that they used some super wondrous special magical brass alloy for the Black Beauties if they did indeed do so. But they don't, the only requirement they have to meet to make the drums as advertised is their shells have to be seamless "brass".

Two different varieties of brass shells would create a lot of extra costs and overall inventory and production headaches. I just can't see it unless it made a huge difference and there again if they were doing that they would certainly try to capitalize on that by drawing more attention to it. I think the primary difference besides the color is the profit margin...because they can. The Black Beauty is the "Cadillac" model of the Supraphonic family and as such it costs more.

To give Ludwig the benefit of the doubt as far as simply being "greedy"...another possibility is that the rejection rate of the black nickel plated shells is high. If the plating on a lot of them turns out to be deemed unnacceptable for their flagship snare (if it's harder to get a good finish when doing black nickel, I don't know that it is , just speculating here) and therefore they can't be used then those associated costs would have to be factored into the price of each BB that is finished and sold.

They do churn out a fair number of B-stock BB drums that have very slight flaws in the plating, perhaps there are more that they can't use at all so they would need to add all the costs of those rejects into the wholesale price of these drums.

Again this is all just speculation. It would be cool if someone from Ludwig could comment on this thread although I doubt they'd want to give away too much information.