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Ludwig hammered bronze - no snare bed?

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Hi folks. I just bought this beautiful Ludwig hammered bronze snare, which I am guessing is from the late 80s.

What makes me wonder, is that this drum has no snare bed whatsoever. Was this normal on those drums?!

The problem is that the snare wires keep buzzing on for quite a while (very quite) and I have not found a way to make them stop yet. The snare sounds great but there's something strange about it.

A guy I know already guessed that somebody at Ludwig by accidentmounted a p-85 on shell made for a super sensitive .....

Any ideas in that? Or how I can get that buzz under control?!

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Posted on 11 years ago
#1
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Well this is not a response about the snare, it's about the buzz. The fact is that we drummers tend to focus on tiny things that are really insignificant. I include myself in that because I would spend hours trying to get rid of every extra overtone on my drums until I had a chance to talk to a recording artist who gave me some advice. Don't Obsess!!!! he said. They're drums, they will ring, hum, and create resonant sounds. Unless your'e recording a symphony in a studio, for the most part, that sound is part of the character of the drum. That's the sound it makes! So roll with it. Well that's what he said. It helped a little. As I know that when I play out no one can hear the little buzz or sympathetic ring, not even me. And when I've been in the studio and the song is mixed properly most of those little sounds either can blend in or be mixed out.

But yes there are some things you can do to reduce them and some work quite well, like slightly detuning the resonant head, or simply tuning the drum differently as well different types of muffling and even hammering a snare bed, but if it's a slight sound try just ignoring it maybe??

1958 Gretsch Kit
1966 Kent Kit
1969 Ludwig Standard Kit
1970 Rogers Power Tone Kit
1970's Ludwig Vistalite Kit
1994 Yamaha Maple Custom
2010 Yamaha Maple Custom
28 assorted snares (including some real crap)
and 1 really nice K Zildjian Istanbul
Posted on 11 years ago
#2
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I see what your point is... One thing I always tell my students when they ask and complain about the buzzing of the snare wires when they hit a tom, is as well: " guys this is part of the sound of your instrument! Love it!"

And generally for me that's not a problem at all.

But it feels different here. One example: when I hit the snare only, and only once,.. At least some of the wires (original Ludwigs in great shape) keep on buzzing for at least 3-4 seconds after the stroke. Loosening or tightening the wires stays without effect. I also tried new modern wires (20-strand pearl) as well. Those didn't even work at all....

I might try some tuning tricks, though I already have de tuned the bottom head various ways... Let's see if it helps :-)

BUT my question still is there: did/do Ludwig Hammered Bronze Snares not have a snarebed?!? Or am I facing some kind of oddity here?!

Posted on 11 years ago
#3
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This question about snare beds comes up from time to time. The snare beds on "acousti perfect" shells are very wide and shallow and gradual. They cannot be detected by the naked eye or running your finger along.

In order to check if it has snare beds you need to do a test like using a flashlight in a darkened room. Place the shell on a very flat surface and see if any light emerges in the area of the snare bed when you put the flashlight inside pointing out. The beds could be more than 1500 mm wide and only 1 mm deep. Have you done that sort of test yet? Or are you just inferring lack of snare beds because of the sound?

If you have the bottom (resonant) head tuned in such a way that it responds strongly to the batter head then the two heads will continue to excite one another after just one hit. In that case the snares are just doing their job, but what you can change is the relative tunings of the top and bottom heads. The answer may not be de-tuning the bottom head, or de-tuning the lugs on either side of the snares. Depending on how you have the top head tuned the answer may be to tighten it up.

Another thing to check is that your resonant head hasn't been overstretched at some point so that when you tighten it up the collar gets too low. I had this happen on my 2002 Black Beauty once when I was using a thin resonant (the thickness was 200 mil rather than the more common 300 mil from memory). The solution was to buy a new resonant head and don't over tighten it. I changed to a 300 mil one and haven't had the problem since.

With Ludwig anything is possible, but mixing up a Super Sensitive shell (with no snare beds) and then putting a standard strainer on it is quite unlikely. That doesn't mean it can't happen. But it is unlikely so it shouldn't be the first explanation you consider.

Posted on 11 years ago
#4
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Tune both heads normally. Bottom/snare head to an 'A' and the top head to a 'C' or 'C#.' Add a set of these:

http://www.puresoundpercussion.com/PSPProductDetails.Page?productid=11&productname=Equalizer_Series&sid=48a23e16-926f-4c49-b31a-bcb07e9a20fc

That will take care of the extraneous snare buzz and you can tune your drum any way you like, high, low, or anywhere in-between. I own a hammered bronze, it is one of the best sounding snare drums Ludwig ever manufactured. You shouldn't have to struggle with it. Try the 'Equalizers'! I have a set on my hammered bronze and the snares do their job, minimize extraneous buzz, and they work great.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 11 years ago
#5
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" guys this is part of the sound of your instrument! Love it!" -mschrant

I like that! and if you don't love it (at least when well tuned) play sax!

1958 Gretsch Kit
1966 Kent Kit
1969 Ludwig Standard Kit
1970 Rogers Power Tone Kit
1970's Ludwig Vistalite Kit
1994 Yamaha Maple Custom
2010 Yamaha Maple Custom
28 assorted snares (including some real crap)
and 1 really nice K Zildjian Istanbul
Posted on 11 years ago
#6
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From mcdrummer

" guys this is part of the sound of your instrument! Love it!" -mschrantI like that! and if you don't love it (at least when well tuned) play sax!

HAhahaha + 1!!Funny Post


Ludwig '67 Classic B.D.P.
Ludwig '79 Classic Pro-beat
C. A. F. '72 New Sonic "The Argentinean Ludwig"
A bunch of Ludwig snares..... + Dyna & P.Tone.

and always trying to recover some orphan drums!!
Posted on 11 years ago
#7
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I always thought the supersensitive had snare beds the same as the supraphonic? perhaps you could confirm.

Thanks Chris

Posted on 11 years ago
#8
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Check out this thread below on Supraphonics vs. Super Sensitives.

http://vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=44037

According to Bun E. Carlos...the Super Sensitives do not have snare beds. If your snare was originally supposed to have the super sensitive strainer and ended up with a P85, that would most certainly make sense.

Aaron

- EMD
Posted on 11 years ago
#9
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