there is no secrete it goes by the size of the drums and there configuration

as this is the place to learn about it all. downbeat lol

look for the potatoe!

Moe Larry Cheese

They are all the same drums, ie: there were no "downbeat" model drums vs. Big beat, etc. Ludwig only made one type of drums at the time. The names refer to different combinations of those drums.

A downbeat set was a 20" bass drum with a 12" and a 14" tom and a particular snare (which varied a bit over the years). A super Classic was a 13" tom, a 16" floor tom and a 22" bass drum. The Deluxe classic was the same set but with heavier hardware. Details varied from catalog to catalog as things evolved. Also some names were used for more than one thing as "Downbeat" was also a snare drum name to further add a layer of confusion (Gretsch did this too).

The bottom line is that there were stacks of drums at the factory and any 8x12 in those stacks might end up as part of a Downbeat set or a Hollywood set or maybe in a non-cataloged drum set combination that a drummer specially ordered. The names simply refer to various combinations of these same drums, not different types of shell layups.

I don't recall 13/18/24 with a rail mount as being a cataloged set at the time. It was most likely a special order set.

This is one of the questions i was gonna ask about ludwig kits too. Thank you K.O. for the explanation. Also was wondering if one kit was more expensive then the other such as a higher end or a lower end model. And what are the factors that makes one model more collectable/valuable then the other?

At the time there were no "higher end" models. Even the obstensibly "lower end" (ie: cheaper) drums such as the Club Dates and the Standards still had the same shells, bearing edges, hoops, etc. The difference in pricing on those had to do with other factors (lower labor costs, lighter hardware, etc). There were options that did add to the price such as the longer "mach" lugs but mostly the drums were the same throughout. A cataloged set might be a bit cheaper to buy initially as a package than to piece a similar set together one drum at a time but if you did order up a special set you could put together a Downbeat or a Super Classic if you wanted.

In terms of collectability and/or value today that has much more to do with the desirability of certain drums and certain wraps than the original cost of the drums. It's supply and demand and some wraps are highly desirable and were made in small numbers so therefore tend to sell for more. People also generally will pay a premium for originality (no mods or extra holes). People often use the catalog pictures as the criteria for that which I don't agree with 100% since these sets sometimes evolved faster than the catalog images did. But, obviously, finding Pearl tom mounts on a 60's Ludwig set, for example, seriously effects the value of that set in a negative way.

Non cataloged sets can be judged on their own merits despite the lack of a catalog template to judge them against. If the set was obviously put together at the factory and hasn't been modified since it should stand on its own merits even if the sizes don't exactly line up with the few size combinations that were cataloged. (IMO)

Thankyou K.O.

I was curious as to why in the catalogs, they did seem similar, and your explanation has covered it all for me. Cheers.

Have a Merry Christmas.