Thanks, But I think we have a two diverse takes on technique. Technique has nothing to do with technology, click tracks, remote triggers, etc.

When you started playing you probably had some instruction or saw an example of how to hold your sticks. Most likely if you hold them with your elbows you won't play with the same ability as if you hold them in your hands.

Similarly if you hold them with the stick protruding between the knuckles of your middle finger and ring finger you won't be able to strike the drum with the same accuracy and force than with another grip. How you grip the stick can help you to play faster, more consistently, and with less injury to your hands and maybe your gear. How you set up and tune can make a difference in the damage you do to your gear and yourself. That's what I mean by technique.

Technique doesn't stifle creativity. Are you thinking Ginger Baker and Buddy Rich had no technique? They are both excellent examples of technique. And I can name hundreds of drummers who teach technique and I think you will agree, are excellent drummers. Steve Smith, Steve Jordan, Billy Ward, and the list goes on.

As far as this quote: "You don't need to use proper technique to make music, and just because you use proper technique doesn't mean you're making music." I couldn't agree more!

I think you may agree with this statement also: You don't need to use high quality gear to make music and just because you use high quality gear doesn't mean that you're making music.

But if your poor quality gear breaks down, detunes, falls down often, rattles and shakes, then it will get in the way of making music. And high quality gear may help you make music.

Similarly, proper technique MAY help you make music, and improper technique MAY hinder you from making music.

It just seems like your saying that proper technique is the enemy of great, fun, musical, drumming from the heart. There is no conflict between technique and making great music. If anything technique can only help.

LOL you are a persistent rascal I have one other way to try and get this point across..... Ginger, Buddy Ian, etc etc all have a great style and it is to them! and they are, were great because they never sat their wondering am I holding the stick right , am I striking the cymbal at the correct angle... they just played and however they held the sticks or struck the cymbal worked for them..... get it? That is all I am saying is don't clutter your mind with useless baggage just play the rest will work it's self out on it's own.... If you do not mind me asking how old you and what kind of music do you like to play?

The last thing you want to think about when your playing a gig is whether your using good technique or not. If you do you won't play very well and you will not have any fun! Technique is a learned behavior that you aquire from practicing. It becomes automatic so that you use it without having to think about it. If you find that your breaking a lot of equipment you might want to think about looking at your technique to see if you can help yourself out. Using good technique will make things easier and less expensive for you in the long run. Once you get good technique down you'll find that your having even more fun than you were already having. (Please note that I said "good " technique not "right" technique because there are many different styles of technique.)

I don't really have dog in this "fight" because I'm pretty lame on the kit and don't perform or anything like that.... I do love to play the drums and try to play every day.

BUT I AM REALLY ENJOYING THE DIALOG>>> SO THANKS!!

Mike T... I hear ya.... but if you listen to Buddy, for instance, talk about matched grip vs. traditional grip you can hear that he was intensely committed to "proper" technique as he viewed it and felt it directly influenced the quality of music that was produced by a percussionist. Of course... I don't think there was anything that Buddy Rich didn't have a fairly strong opinion on.

Hi Mike, I guess since were getting to know each other you should know my name is Mike also! I'm in my mid 50's, I grew up with older "brothers" in the house who were musicians, so I was listening to, influenced by, and eventually jamming with mostly 50's & 60's music, and eventually '70s. What ever was on the radio.

My first band played Stones, Beatles, Doors, Animals, Byrds, Kinks, the Who, Zeppelin, and yes Cream as well. And I do know how to let loose, let go and play with reckless abandon. In the early years I mostly played in rock bands (back when it wasn't called "classic") in the late 70's I toured with a top 40 cover band playing 3-4 hour gigs 5-6 nights a week and living on a bus, early 80's I began playing with a southern rock band, I've also played blues, country, big band, wedding band, and eventually got into Prog rock, and eventually fusion and jazz. I had years where I played over 300 gigs, months when I played over 40 gigs and weeks when I played 9,10, adn 11 gigs. That involves double and triple headers. I've done some studio work, opened for some national acts, and made a living playing for quit a few years before the work started drying up and I began teaching and doing clinics.

And when I was young technique was not a word in my vocabulary. You can't play as much as I have without giving some thought to technique. But now I hang with a group of drummers in our 50's and 60's and we talk about technique all the time. We also talk about a lot of useless crap too.

How can you say that Ginger, Buddy, Ian, never thought about how they hold the stick or sit or set up? When were you in their heads?

"In 1963 Ginger purchased his first Zildjian cymbals - he still uses them today. Ginger looks after his cymbals - the 22" rivet ride cymbal and the 14" hi-hats he currently uses are the same ones he used on the Cream tours in 1968!" - that's a quote from his website. How did those cymbals possibly survive with out some thought about technique?

Technique is something you develop and it becomes your style of playing. I think if you and I sat down and jammed together I could show you what I'm talking about and you might agree.

I agree with you Buddy using the traditional grip worked for buddy and that is what he taught , but can you imagine Buddy telling John Bonham that he is wrong because he uses a match grip? there in lies my point you as a individual will develop your own style not by copying any one else,s but by being creative and playing the way God made you... that is how Buddy got to be Buddy and Ginger got to be Ginger....

MC Drummer I am a bit older but we pretty much grew up doing the same things I started in 1963 and due to illness gave it up last year I am 62 man I got to see all the greats Buddy Ginger, JHB, Ian Paice, Don Brewer,Cozy, kieth Moon, and many others and like all garage band drummers i tried to emulate them all but what i found was I was not good at anything i was just copying someone else I was not original in any way so i dropped the baggage and started playing for me and playing licks i wanted to play and low and behold i started getting good in alot of areas... and i became not like anyone else but like me then I knew I was having fun and enjoying playing and not worrying about playing this way or that way and i could care less what any one else thought.....

Now I did break a few cymbals and i broke bass drum heads always with my right foot never with the left (i played double bass forever even when it was not in vogue) and i broke snare heads, and alot of times I played with my left or snare stick turned around using the big end and i hit rim shots alot like a cannon, to this day i can destroy a set of sticks over night but i don't care never give it a thought because if I tried to change the way I play I would not have much fun and my mind would be cluttered adding to not allowing me to just do it....

And if we sat down I could show you what i mean and you too would agree because neither of us are wrong I just think you are placing to much emphasis on technique and not enough on originality, and some stuff just breaks, given hard use..... I have had the good fortune of being in the right band at the right time and got to open for a ton of great bands ,The Who, The Yardbirds, Mitch Rider and the Detroit Wheels, the band i was in got to back up Bobby Goldsbouro, got to meet and sit and drink with Jimmy Page and Jeff beck at the same table and i always asked the same question to them all "how did you get to play like that" and almost to a man they all said I don't know i just play...... so I think there is alot to that it has been many years since i thought about technique , that is something you learn playing the drums or guitar or hitting a baseball or throwing a football is something you do.. and there will always be those guys who just seem to do it the best LOL I am not one of them , but i still marvel at the naturals, and you will never develop your natural skills if you are busy trying to learn someone elses..... other than that pay no attention to me i am just a old opinionated fa_t.... LOL

Ok I reckon the technique issues regarding Ape like behavior on Drums is more for over zealous young beginners with to much energy and no finesse. No harm done, they want to do it then thats ok by me.

Breaking sticks is a by-product of playing a certain way. Rocking out hard will wear your stuff out because despite technique, your simply hitting it harder. My band require that I slam it hard every show, the Singer requires my energy come off my kit which in turn he throws out in his performance. It's part of the gig, and if any of you want my chair you will be expected to do the same. I love doing it, and the live show needs it but I chew through my gear a bit. My god I even broke the shaft of my DW pedal beater the other day, sheared off in half! Now that was funny. There's nothing Gereld or anyone could say to me to make that change because it comes with the territory.

Now, if you are breaking sticks playing Bossa's on a up market Pizza Restaurant gig then you need to see a doctor! Well it just would not happen would it, you just couldn't play it loud enough to even make a dent. You'll be thrown out the building.

Breaking sticks playing Hard Rock = your not wrong

Breaking sticks playing light Jazz = Your not right (in the head!)

Absolutely!! Yes Sir

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0V4Aqs2D48[/ame]

:) Not saying right or wrong... I'm just say'in yeah Buddy would.

Yep. He certainly would have, especially if a camera was rolling.

The thing I like about that video is that THAT particular drum solo contradicts what he had just said in that interview. Also, the way he starts out by saying, "This is something I didn't want to do, but I'll do it for you..." Thanks for that, Buddy. Gawd, the man came across as a royally pompous a-hole, but what a player...

Mike T, I think we've taken a bit of a left turn from the topic. This thread started talking about breaking sticks and gear unnecessarily and seems to have become a debate between technique and musicality, fun, creativity, etc.

I think you may have mistaken me for a technique evangelist, trying to save the world of drummers. Wrong!!! I've never said drummers won't break stuff.

My main point is, if you want to break less stuff, and cause less harm to your self, and maybe even play better, then maybe a look at your technique is necessary. Many drummers have done it. Steve Smith for example talks about how he changed his posture and seat position, and foot technique to improve his drumming. Dave Weckl did an entire DVD on how he re-learned his grip to improve his playing. Mike Johnston talks often about how he adapted his grip to increase speed.

And Phil Collins has quite drumming for the most part and blames his poor posture when sitting behind the kit for causing back problems.

Buddy talked often about technique - although he was rather dogmatic that there was really only one way to play - here's a quote from Buddy from 1942 - Metronome magazine:

Many young drummers wonder why their technique fails to improve in pro- portion to the amount of time they spend on a practice pad. The answer to this problem lies in knowing the proper method of practicing, with special emphasis on developing technique. - Buddy Rich

We can disagree forever (and I'm sure we will) but the only point I'm trying to make is this. IF you are happy with your drumming, don't mind breaking stuff, have no problems physically as a result of drumming, and your bandmates and audience think you doing a good job then GOD BLESS YOU!!! Keep up the good work. I would never, never, never want you to change a thing.

BUT

IF you you are not satisfied in one of those areas - then technique can be something you can address instead of quitting, surgery, costly replacement of gear, getting fired, not getting hired, or what ever else you have a problem with. (unless it's too late) - that's not an unreasonable statement is it, my friend?

Now let's get back to drinking with Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page, tell me more, tell me more! Holy Crap! How did that happen? Maybe I'll start a new post, "Tell me your drinking with famous drummers stories"

Looking forward to reply's