Thanks for the link, and no it doesn't have to be Zildjian for my needs. Also doesn't have to be period correct, but the sound I hear in my head is like some of the Trans Stamp ones I see on Youtube. Or at least that is close. :)

Thanks for all the info, and yes, the search is half the fun!

Oh, another thing I've noticed, is it makes a huge difference in tone with different cymbal stands. I was using some of the top of the line Yamaha stands but I liked the look of the old Slingerland flat based stands. When I changed over I was in awe of how different my brass sounded. I have Sabian AAX 14" Flat Hats that are a little dark, but with that flat based stand they opened up and have a nice chick chick, and a tingly sound. Also, my Sabian AAX 17" Studio Crash (fantastic crash) sounded even more rich and warm on the tiny thin flat stand. I know they aren't as durable, but I'm not gigging so they just sit and perform.

I've also been looking for a K Custom Dark 18" crash but haven't come across any yet. As mentioned earlier, I don't like the sound of the new ones so am hoping to find something used. Other than condition, weight will be a prime consideration, not only for the cymbal itself, but also how it slots into the weight gaps between it and my other cymbals (12" splash, 14", 16" and 17" crashes). I like to keep the weight gaps between cymbals fairly consistent, as I find that it sets up a tonal progression much like someone gets when they tune their toms. Perhaps that is why you're not too crazy about the ones you have tried. They just don't blend with what you are accustomed to hearing.

As for hi-hats, unfortunately, Zildjian doesn't make 15" K Custom Dark hats (at least I haven't seen any for sale). I'd love to get a pair to replace my 15" early '60s A's, but I'll no doubt have to settle for a pair of 14s.

Have you found that the weight is that good an indication of the tone (or perhaps pitch is a better term)? I have not really seen (heard) that myself but my experience is with A Zildjians.

So much more than weight goes into the sound of a cymbal, but perhaps in this K Custom Dark line (which I am just discovering really) it has a tighter tolerance for the sounds?

In any event I have heard a few 18" crashes around here and although they all sounded a bit different, they all sounded good to me. The smaller ones (in my case) will be more difficult to sort out if I get any. Since these are for my little D20 kit, all I need is a versatile ride, a nice crash and a nice hats. Ideally, the crash on the left can be ridden, and the ride on the right can be crashed. Should work well for my needs (once I finally get them). Then I can keep my eyes peeled for smaller ones and maybe I'll find a 17 or 16 that fits well for the far right.

Then:

The Band

I agree with J!M

Im playing on 2 rogers kits..

63 maple shells 18/bass/14/flr/12tom..also a 69 20/16/13/12

I use a BIG stamp (50s) Zild avedis 21" big bell with the rivits..awesome combination with the vintage sound..i can't count the amount of comps I've received from this..

Also matched with a Trans stamp 12" thin splash & 60s 16" thin crash & 60s 13" Thin Hats..

I actual use this combination on both kits..*I bring in a 20" Ping ride from time to time..

Or have used moongel on the rivited ride if it needs to be quieted down.

That is my main ride on my blue RC kit... I also have a 22" Ping Ride that is a completely different animal. You can ride the 20" for a week and it stays under control, and the bell cuts really well too, in spite of it's small-ish size. But you can't crash this thing! (well, not with drum sicks anyway) On that kit I have plenty of crashes to choose from so this is not an issue.

On the little D20 I want a very minimal amount of equipment to force me to be more creative with it... I have become stale and play the same stuff all the time and feel this lil' guy will get my focus back (plus it's fun!):)

I agree that there is a lot more than weight that goes into the sound of a cymbal and, by extension, results in a cymbal sounding good to one person and perhaps not so great to another. Also, I haven't the faintest idea of whether the K Custom Dark line has a tighter tolerance for the sounds than Zildjian's other lines. I suspect that the weight differences may be no more than a by-product of what makes a particular cymbal sound good to me and blend well with my other ones. In any event the process seems to work for me, whether it is actually a good indication of the cymbal's tone/pitch or not, and is one that I have used even before I transitioned to the K Custom Darks from my vintage A's.

Since I keep track of the weights anyway, I have found that trying to find cymbals of a particular size in a given weight range has made it easier for me to get the sound I am looking for across the entire range of cymbal sizes I have. For example, I won't buy a medium weight crash because it just won't work with my other crashes that are extra-light. In fact, once I bought a 16" Sabian AAX Studio Crash as part of a package deal and, although I really liked the sound of it, I turned it over almost immediately because its sound just didn't mesh with the others. In the final analysis, how good a cymbal sounds to an individual is no doubt very subjective and there is nothing scientific about the approach I use. It just gives me a way of narrowing the field when I'm in the market for a cymbal. So far, the results have been very satisfactory.

10-4 on that. I think you are onto something that 'works' for you and I wish I had something that was as easy to use as a point of reference.

As it stands now, I usually bring along my 16" A Zildjian thin crash, as that is what I call my "key" cymbal (and the first crash cymbal I ever owned). But, at this point, I am looking for a totally new palette for the 'little kit', and found (more like stumbled upon) the 13" K Custom Dark Hi Hat cymbals that I really like. So this time, my 'key' is a set of hats that blend with just about anything!

That aside, I have a very specific sound in my head for my ride cymbal, and the 20" K Custom Dark seems to fit that "ideal" reasonably well, as does a K Constantinople ride I heard (but those are stupid money). AND I like the 18" crash cymbals I have heard so far. I guess I'm done- all I need now is money, or people who want to trade me for A Zildjians I have available...:)

If you go to ( Classic Vintage Drums .com ) he has more examples than you will ever need when it comes to everything from Trans Stamp to 60s Avedis to EAK or K Istanbul Rides and in every wt. possible. His prices are reasonable his cymbals are great and some of those Trans Stamp and 60s era thin Hi Hats and Rides are killer...All hand made and just sound better each year.

Interesting thoughts on stick sizes & stand types effecting cymbal sound! I use anything from aj4's to Steve Gadd's, depending on the gig. I have noticed that some of my lighter cymbals "choke" with the bigger gauge sticks but come more to life with the tiny AJ4's (& the opposite happening with my heavier gauge cymbals). The angle at which cymbals hang seems to me to change how I perceive the sound (at least from behind the kit). Probably more a question of how sound is refracted on certain surfaces. On the other hand i have never put much thought into how stand effect cymbal sounds (apart from washer types & the amount of tension applied). Maybe has to do with the smaller diameter of vintage stands (the threaded part you put the cymbal on, whatever the correct term for that is). I didn't mean to hijack this thread or anything.... It just got me thinkin'!