I bought brand new a Top hat set in Blue Glass Glitter in early 1965 the dogbone double tom holder uses the same size hole as a tom mount the later Tpost style of double tom holder has a larger hole and a metal backing plate on the inside of the bass drum the dogbone has no metal backing plate one of the signs of a top hat was the addition of a Knobby mount high on the 16x16 this was factory on mine and another set Bobby Chiasson had, and I agree it appears there was never any side mount for a tom... I would love to see inside pics as well... and it was not uncommon for early Dayton sets to have a cleveland tag as they were using up the last of the Cleveland stock of shells but the numbers should be close , Ploughman is the man on the numbers game..

notice the high knobby the set came this way from the factory..

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/Mike2.jpg[/IMG]

But on your blue set the Rogers logo is visible on both rack toms as well...

[QUOTE=Mike T;223914]I bought brand new a Top hat set in Blue Glass Glitter in early 1965 the dogbone double tom holder uses the same size hole as a tom mount the later Tpost style of double tom holder has a larger hole and a metal backing plate on the inside of the bass drum the dogbone has no metal backing plate one of the signs of a top hat was the addition of a Knobby mount high on the 16x16 this was factory on mine and another set Bobby Chiasson had, and I agree it appears there was never any side mount for a tom... I would love to see inside pics as well... and it was not uncommon for early Dayton sets to have a cleveland tag as they were using up the last of the Cleveland stock of shells but the numbers should be close , Ploughman is the man on the numbers game..

notice the high knobby the set came this way from the factory..

I did notice that there is not a mounting plate inside the bass drum. Looked as though there was some splintering of the wood however where they had drilled it. Looking forward to getting home tomorrow, and take some heads off for a better look. The ride toms look to have the original reso heads.

I have seen 2-3 other Rogers drums with a factory Knobby on the FT as well over the years.

I always wondered if they were for a stick holder cow bell or splash cymbal Man i always have loved swivo gear it is so versatile... I would love to see this red set up close if it is indeed a top hat set there are not many around still together...

Those are very early Dayton drums, made just after the CBS buyout. Sometime in 66. The Top Hat setup shown would still have been used at that point, though on it's way to being phased out for the new Londoner setup. The Top Hat mount did not use a backing plate like the later Londoner mount did, and the splintering around the hole is not really that unusual.

If this kit had been originally a single-tom rig, the original mount would have located to the right, and closer to the back of the bass: obvious evidence of change not here in this case.

That Cleveland tag with number 10xxx is probably a non-Holiday tag with the model name crossed out as Ploughman suggested, or else it's a Holiday tag from 1959 that the assembler found in the bottom of the pile (less likely). That 12" drum is probably an early Dayton as well, just like the other one.

Notice that only one of the toms has the badge facing front. In those days, the toms were made with only one badge (in the 69-70 era it switched to 2 for that reason). Because of this, they had to build 'lefty' and 'righty' toms for kits like this. Not a good idea, but it continued until they realized it was a lot easier just to make them all with 2 badges.

This kit may have come that way, a mistake that was easy to make, or the dealer mixed up the drums from 2-3 kits on the shelf at delivery time. Not uncommon at all in those days.

I suspect that kit is all-original. And it looks real nice...

Thanks to everyone for the information!

DanC....learning more with each reply to this thread. Love this forum and the knowledge of everyone! Looking forward to posting pictures of this kit!

Dan,

my first kit was 22,12,13,16..in essence,a Londoner....but,it had the earlier mount..

Was that a unusual kit,being from circa 64-65?

Blair

I have an Eagle badge 12-13-16-22-snare set from 1959 with the Top Hat setup. Only mount on the bass is center in front of the badge. Serial numbers are very close, and so I think original together shells. It ow has correct second tom arm not shown in the picture.

Blair, you say 'Londoner': because the kit has a 12" and a 13", like a Londoner had? That was an easy change to make at order time, instead of the two 12" toms that were the normal Top Hat setup.

And, later on, I'd bet that some Londoner sets were ordered as a 12/12 instead of the usual 12/13.

From the 1960 catalog thru 1966, the Top Hat rig was used for factory twin-tom setups, and then the Londoner came in, with a standard 12/13 combo instead of 12/12.

Sounds like your kit is an original Top Hat, but was ordered as a 12/13 instead.