The top one looks like a rack tom lug and the bottom a snare lug........they look like Gretsch lugs to me

BBK, The M.I.J. copys will not have the tip piece were the lug screw goes into the lug.Also the M.I.J. lugs are lighter than the real Gretsch lugs and fatter in shape..Mikey

Gary if you still have some Gretsch drums, would it be to much to measure them for me?

Do you mean the insert that the tension rod goes into?

I have more lugs like the one in the first picture and they are very similar, but the spacing is off a wee bit.

He means the stanchion that sticks out on the back of the lug where the lug mounting screws go. The stanchion is what fits into the hole in the shell. A lot of the imports don't have these.

[IMG]http://www.drummaker.com/pix/5743a.jpg[/IMG]

They are what is labeled "A" in this diagram.

[IMG]http://www.drummaker.com/pix/lugspec.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks Thin....learned a new word and some good advice. I have some that are flat but look exactly like Gretsch stuff. Them MIJ's were pretty crafty.

My Gretsch SN lugs are 2 5/16" with 2 1/8" centres on the "stanchion" (screw mounts).

My Rack tom lugs are 1 7/8" in length as measured in B of thin shell's drawring...

I did not take the tom lug off the drum to measure the stanchion centres - if it is critical you know this I will do it this afternoon - please let me know.

Be advised that some of the late-model Ludwig Accent lugs look very similar to Gretsch lugs as well....I'm sure the spacing is different, just an advisory if purchasing online from someone.

Not necessary Gary. Can you tell me if both the rack tom lugs and snare lugs have stanchions that protrude into shell?

Yes - all my Gretsch lugs (on the 58 kit) have the screw mounts that protrude into the shell.......that includes the larger bass drum lugs as well.