kevins - Yup, I hear ya! I'm actually exploring this because folks mention this "speaking" difference. As we know heads, heads, heads. I have thought that with the larger diameter drum the head would actually respond slower (if the head material, thickness and tuning pitch were the same), but then considering that to reach the same pitch a larger head would probably have to be tuned tighter so the "action" would possibly seem quicker, but may not really "speak" quicker.

I'm hoping some of the larger diameter, shallower bass drum enthusiasts dig in to this and come up with some suggestions for tweaking the small diameter, deeper bass drums is all.

Again some of the deeper shells have an internal area that comes close to the older shallow shells. I imagine that some of the builders out there could actually match the area of a new deep shell exactly to an old time favorite shallow shell (Have to tuck custom heads or order a custom size, but what the heck. The sizes we have already may do it though.). Then it might be easier to travel with a smaller diameter drum.

This is all in fun though!

Thanks!

510,

I had a different approach to the responce of the head. I was studying my 22" bass and noticed that it has a 45 degree spoon bit cut on the bearring edges. Now I figured that since the larger air pocket wedge being forced through the smaller Di. drum shell increased the speed of the pressure to the resonant head and met no resistance or back pressure because the other end has the same bearring edge.

When you calculated the area of the bass drum shell, did you draw a line at the bottom of the bearring edges and measure just that area, or did you go from end to end useing the outside length ??

I never really thought about the vent hole releaseing pressure !!

Here is a contradiction, My 30's Radio king toms have no vents at all and are some of the loudest and most projection wood shells I own.

Same with a 6 ply Luddy kit I had. No vents and LOUD.

OddBall - Thank you! I appreciate your detailed info here about the bearing edges. Your response has the depth I was hoping for!

Some years ago when I was waiting to find a vintage single tension bass drum like a friend of mine had had in his earlier days, I started evaluating the internal drum area size. The older sounds I was favoring were all made on those larger diameter shallow shelled drums. I felt that maybe when the drum builders changed to the new deeper shell that they may have kept the same internal area size as to maintain the same frequency range availability (still not sure). My calculations were just based on the advertised sizes as I had yet to acquire even my first bass drum, not hands on, and as considerate of those fine details as your response.

As I’ve said earlier in this thread, I had been reading posts that seemed to indicate a perception that a shallower shelled bass drum seemed to “speak quicker” than a deeper shell. I thought that that could truly be the case (less distance between batter and resonant head), but realized that the vent hole or other holes would likely be the reason for a deeper shell not to respond the same (If you remove the holes no air can escape and the resonant head moves more exactly in response to the batter etc.). Now keep in mind I only presented my vent hole thoughts in this thread. As to try and avoid a “long winded” post, I am viewing this subject from a, “all other things being the same” perspective. I know, as most of us do, that other physical principles apply for other parts of the drum anatomy and are important. This thread is to explore what potential an adjustable vent hole could have to control the “speak” of the BD (low frequencies are very wide and travel slow so faster response might be noticed more with BDs than other drums) .

So for those who are interested, can we get a smaller diameter deep shelled BD to “speak” like the larger diameter shallow shelled BDs by using an adjustable vent (maybe much larger than traditional vents)? then strategically placing it to possibly eliminate the need to cut a hole in a resonant head etc.?

vintagemore2000 - Thank you! You’ve got some of the drums I wish I had! I’m not thinking that sound volume is what “speak” means here though.

For me as an example of what “speak” means; down through the years I’ve worked with many upright acoustic Jazz bass players and when I asked why they didn’t use “gut” style strings, as some I know did, (gut type strings have a great deep tone but cost about $100 per string at that time) the bassists would mention that gut didn’t "speak" as quickly as the metal strings, so there was a trade off. One of my favorite sounding bassists did use gut but he had a Goetz (sp?) bass that was shallower than most of the other French, German and Italian basses the other guys were using. Some of the other guys actually would mix gut and metal strings on some of their basses.

Please forgive me, but I've had a rough go of it just understanding what you are after. Am I correct in thinking you want a deep bass to speak like a shallow bass? Is that what all this has been about?

As far as the vent hole "venting air" ... ... ...

A Tom with no vent hole will play harder and stiffer. If those plies are thicker then it will play like a brick.

Your understanding of physics is flawed in your original post.

RogerSling - Sorry if it is unclear, I am not a very good writer. You seem to be understanding me though. If you could tell me what part of the physics is flawed it would help me make my understanding more clear. Let me try to clarify; I was speaking in my first post about how a container like a drum shell that has a soft membrane (heads) on two sides would push the opposite membrane (resonant head) out in an “equal & opposite reaction” (A Newton law of physics I think) to the pressure applied to a membrane (batter head) if the container didn’t leak any air (No vent, like vacuum sealed). I hope this is clearer.

Thank you!

Instead of Newtonian physics, take a peak into the physics of compression waves. That's the line you should probably follow here. That will take you into the realm of energy movement within a medium. That medium will be air and wood and membrane. It will help you visualize more clearly the How and the Why for what you are seeking. The air contained within the drum is the same as the air outside of the drum. Take care.

RogerSling - Thanks for the pointer! I don’t think it would be necessary for me to understand Compression Wave physics to hear the results of what we are considering here. After all we are musicians. I’m just considering how the air moves inside the drum in regard to the vent hole and the heads. It seems this fundamental action is what produces the way the sound waves are created and then we could analyze them using the Compression Waves stuff you mention if needed (although that may be going to far for what you and I as vintage drum enthusiasts might need). The physics involving the lowly vent hole doing what it does, letting air in and out, is what this seems to be about to me. I’m sure we would know if we just tried an adjustable vent. This thread is me reaching out to those who have more resources than I to see what we might find in regard to what may be a myth; that a larger diameter shallower bass drum speaks quicker. Or it is not a myth and we might be able to reproduce it in smaller diameter deep BDs by controlling the amount of air that is belched from the drum when we kick it.

I have been thinking that by plugging the vent and using the larger hole that some BDs have for the Tom mount as an adjustable air tight vent might give us some interesting results along these lines. It seems to me that the ones I have seen like this could have the Tom bracket removed and an adjustable plate put over the hole using the same screw holes as to not damage the stock condition of the drum.

Great insight RogerSling!