My take on the ending is the exact same as deadheads explanation, I couldn't have said it better. But it just goes to show what a brilliant way to end the film, I was surprised it ended when it did.

To those of you who are a little incredulous that Miles Teller was actually playing those parts in Whiplash, keep in mind that he was already a drummer going into the movie (okay, a rock drummer, Ugh!), but considering the intensive, 3-hour-a-day preparation he received from a seasoned jazz master, I came out of the movie thinking of him more as a great drummer who proved that he can also act a bit (let’s face it, his acting abilities were never going to earn him an Oscar nomination against JK Simmons).

As far as the notion that, if Teller were in fact a great drummer, we would have heard of him before this movie, well that’s a little naïve. The great music schools and conservatories are churning out dozens and dozens of phenomenal drummers every year; guys who can sight read a 14/8 time signature chart flawlessly the first time it’s dropped on their music stand. I’ve seen plenty of these guys, I admire them, and they spend most of their careers “under the radar”.

Now I agree completely with some of the opinions posted here that the soul of music (and drumming) lies in “feeling” the music, but if you ever want to sub for the drummer of Wicked, “Les Mis”, or Phantom (or sub for Tommy P. for that matter), you’d better be able to sight read, and not try to get through a piece by “feeling” it. For professionals, rehearsal time is money. It has to be kept to a minimum, so everyone is expected to come prepared and not be “working out” their part. Being a good reader facilitates that. I’m an “okay” reader, but tricky time signatures still require me to take a piece home and practice it. I agree with Prof. Fletcher (Simmons). You don’t want to hear “Good job”; you want to hear “Wow, you nailed it”. I know I’ll never be able to play at the level demonstrated in Whiplash, and that’s okay. But isn’t it great being inspired by that kind of playing and wanting to become better?

:2Cents:

Mike

Here's another article that suggests the stand-in was Nate Lang -

http://www.people.com/article/miles-teller-drums-whiplash

The director mentions using a lot of production sound - that figures since most of the time it was so mushy I couldn't really make out what exactly he was playing. Too boomy.

As for the ends justifies the means, that remains a decision for the individual in a given instance I think. I can't get too broken up over somebody offing themselves because their music teacher was mean to them. Or because they feared they'd never be the "best". The main character also indulges in an extended period of "sucking out".

The point I took was that this type of dedication and balls-to-the-wall determination to succeed is not for everyone. It certainly never was for me! :) These people who need to be the best, they're a different breed I think. At the end the father gazes with wonder at his son, accomplishing what he [the father] never had the drive to accomplish.

Also, I've definitely gone for a cymbal crash and caught the hihat instead, resulting in blood on the drumheads...:)

Mitch

Wow. i had no clue Buddy didn't read music. so cool. makes me have even that much more respect for the man. i love watching him play. thank goodness for youtube.

what is explained here about Buddy is the exact talent my brother has. Michael plays totally by ear. he hears a song one time and plays it. only difference is, mike is a bassist. he can play many instruments but the 5 string bass is his main instrument. hand mike any instrument, and i guarantee within 10-15 minutes he is playing a song. you should hear what he can do with a toy guitar. Michael turned down a scholarship because he did not feel he deserved it because of not being able to read music.

i envey mikes talent, i wish i had it.

i want to see this movie now. honestly, i've never heard of it.

I think the stand-in was really our own beloved super moderator, Tommyp!

Neiman wanted to be the "best" and Fletcher was aware of it. Though it was extreme and abusive, he was constantly testing Neiman to see just how bad he wanted to be the "best". There was a constant control volley going back and forth between Neiman and Fletcher with Neiman getting a little stronger as the movie progresses. Remember Neiman was shy and reserved in the beginning of the movie and assertive and a leader by the end.

In the last scene, Fletcher intends to bury Neiman and almost succeeds by playing the "new" piece that Neiman has never seen. Neiman almost gives up, but he returns to the stage under his own terms by leading the band with Caravan. Fletcher, still resistant, conducts the rest of the band. During that performance, Fletcher tries to take back control numerous times, but is unsuccessful, so he finally submits to Neiman by fixing the crash cymbal that has fallen, so Neiman can continue to play. Then they start working together with Fletcher finally giving Neiman the smile that he's finally made it to the "best".

The underling story was about being the "best" and at what cost someone is willing to achieve it, not really about jazz or drumming. Yes, there were some liberties taken in the name of cinematics, but this story could have easily been told through many other subjects; sports, dance, vocals, guitar, business. Remember the producers and directors needed to appeal to an audience of more than just musicians and I think they did a great job.

-Tim

Well then you better not read this thread until ya see it.

The. douche bag who wrote the negative review said Buddy Rich was a loud insensitive technical whiz and a tv personality who was not a real jazz inspiration. What an idiotic statement.

[COLOR="Red"]Robyn: SPOILER ALERT. Don't Read This.[/COLOR]

Tim (thornbeck),

Very nice synopsis of the dynamic going on between Andrew and Fletcher. I agree the underlying point of the movie is the uncompromising drive to be the best, a theme highlighted by the fact that Andrew breaks up with his perfect girlfriend because he won't dilute his dedication to drumming with the time-consuming responsibilities of a romantic relationship(what an idiot!).

As you said, the subject could have been anything... sports, dance, martial arts, anything, and we've seen this teacher/apprentice theme in countless movies, but what distinguished this movie for me (and made it Oscar worthy) was the fact that the antagonist, Fletcher, is so complex. He's not the simple, maniacal a$$hole that too many reviewers make him out to be. He's actually a sad, self-loathing, pathetic figure who never achieved his dream of creating the next Charlie “Bird” Parker. He all but says so in the bar scene with Andrew:

“The playing never interested me. I never wanted to be Charlie Parker. I wanted to be the man who made Charlie Parker. The man who discovered some scrawny kid, pushed him, prodded him, shaped him into something great”

I'm not convinced that Fletcher’s little smile at Andrew in the ending scene is satisfaction that Andrew has proven himself and has finally “made it”. I think Fletcher is pleased with himself that he has finally achieved his own personal, life’s goal of creating the next Charlie Parker.

Great movie. Great movie to discuss. Better movie than “Birdman”

Mike