Well, especially for Pearl drums- I agree with what you said very much. It's really interesting to see the Japanese Pearl catalog and then the American Pearl catalog of the same year and see how completely different they were- and the drums we find and collect all fall somewhere in between- it seemsWelcome

But would any of us be drummers today without those drum pictures in the SEARS catalogs to inflame our young minds!? Not to mention the women's undies section- just kidding,- no seriously... just kidding

Phew! I just got done typing a lengthy reply on the "Jazzette" thread which touches on a couple of points that might apply to this subject. But, what the heck....here goes! x-mas3

I agree that many drum sets were sold the way you described. But, I also must state that I think that, percentage-wise, many more kits were sold by the depicted configurations.

Collecting is a game. It never existed when the drums in question were being made. It's a modern game bourn from...whatever reasons -(too many to name). It's all that and more. Different collectors make up different kinds of rules to their own particular forms of the game. However, it has become kind of accepted in most drum collecting circles that reference-able configurations with matching badge numbers, dates, et al., are at the top of the desire-pyramid.

So, even though people could (and did) get custom sizes and put together their own special kits back then, they couldn't have predicted the evolution into a future-collectible.

But, that's what did happen. And as a result of that, whenever a really rare drum set turns up and it's in a really rare color and it's obvious that everything is original and all....AND it's just like the one in the catalog, then it follows that everyone notices those details and appreciates them. And that's what gets the "oohhh" and "aaaahhh" reactions.....and that's part of the reward of the game. In essence, to have the rarest/most desirable items that no one else has and to have them be in the best condition with the most provenance including some form of visual reference, is.... a "score"! Because, like I say, it's a game.

If someone has a sales receipt for a truly custom-ordered kit from back in the original days, then, yes, that would certainly be considerable provenance or proof of originality. But, I suspect it would still be less-desirable in a collectible sense, than a cataloged kit. Collectors don't want a customer's version of a kit. They want the company's version of a kit. Burger Kin

Darn good on all points O-Lugs, I'm just speaking to these two cause they speak to me the loudest.

If a set was ordered outside the parameters of the options stated in the catalogs, I can't see identifying the set as one in the catalog.

So, I want a Slingerland '69 Buddy Rich 80N, but no shell mounted cymbal holders, and I'll just take one floor tom. Do I have a BR 80-N..... No, I have a Gene Krupa Deluxe 1-N.

For me, the catalogs define what a set is expected to consist of, and what it can and cannot be referred to as.

These variations on a theme are just fine for what they are.... uncataloged sets of drums.

Their collectible value is not as high as a cataloged set.

All good points, and especially regarding the collectible aspects of them.. I just feel that automatically downgrading something as being "non-original" just because it isn't pictured in the catalog could be jumping to conclusions.

Relying on a catalog gets you only so far.. But I guess I made that rule up on my own.. True, the rules are arrived at both individually and collectively.

It's like the difference between book knowledge and experience. If a picture is worth a thousand words, having a drum in hand and looking it over and doing this with several drums over time is worth a thousand pictures.

In my opinion, if you have an original set that was built to a customers special order making it one of a kind, I believe it would be worth more. In my case, I had my Slingy Magnum XM10 set built with all base drum lugs on the mega toms, I think it looks better with the longer lugs on the deeper drums, substituted a 16 inch floor tom for the 18 inch and then added a 20 inch floor tom to the set. It's an awsome looking set that eventually will have some value, as long as I keep it showroom new.Look at it this way, if you have a vintage muscle car that's one of a kind, it's going to bring in a much higher dollar amount at auction to the collector that wants it.

Nope. Sorry. It doesn't work that way. Maybe it works that way with muscle cars, but not with vintage drum sets.

I took me a while to understand the game. I couldn't get my mind around the "wrap" variable. Same exact kit but a different wrap equates to ridiculous differences in value. Made absolutely no sense to me.

Once I got it, I've enjoyed the ride.

It really is a game and the rules are pretty clear. Like it or not, cats rule the game. It's the pics in 'em that keep the players honest. If you play Monopoly or Trivial Pursuit with your own house rules, you will probably have a tough time adjusting to this game. I know I did.

The cats are good for looking at the drumsets that were offered but they aren't good for beyond a limited degree of historical accuracy. True about the pictured sets usually being the thing people want. There are and will always be exceptions, though, like anything.

JJM72350, The problem with your assumption is that rarity is only one component of value. Desirability is the other component, and if most are searching for a particular cataloged set, then a non-cataloged set doesn't qualify because it isn't being sought-after.

That being said, you could still be right, because certain models and years of drums aren't as widely coveted. Slingerland Magnums would probably qualify under this. While there are collectors of them, if your drums have original drills for the larger lugs, its originality could be of greater interest to someone than another otherwise-"normal" set of Slingerland Magnums.

The prime example of rarity not equating to value is the Ringo color on Ludwigs. Black Oyster Pearl was produced in the 60s at a higher quantity than practically all the other Ludwig colors. It is the most valued now because Ringo played that color. Beatles items have a desirability going way beyond the limited vintage drum market, driving the prices up on an otherwise-overly-common drum wrap color.

I don't consider catalogs to rule. They are a reference but they were a marketing device, so as an accurate historical reference they fall way short. That's why I'll always take a comment that references the catalog to determine the EXACT age or some other historical detail with a grain of salt. Collectors may drool over them and try to get the more common cataloged sets, but that doesn't mean that the catalogs are anything more than what was intended. You can get very close to the truth, though. I salivate more when I'm looking at a late 70s acrolite snare drum up close and personal than I do with a catalog. It's the difference between experiencial knowledge and book knowledge.

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