I can say that the SM57 shows up on a ton of gigs from club shows to the biggest arena and stadium shows. There are other mics that people use but you will find more 57's in that application than pretty much any other. Almost any high end engineer would take a 57 in a pinch. Did you throw your bottom mic out of phase? That is pretty critical I believe. Perhaps a better question is what kind of sound are you looking for?

that's what sits on mine! 100% reliable. I've used shure my whole life.

[/QUOTE] Almost any high end engineer would take a 57 in a pinch. Did you throw your bottom mic out of phase? That is pretty critical I believe. Perhaps a better question is what kind of sound are you looking for?[/QUOTE]

I apologize for my ignorance...but I can't say much about whether it is out of phase or not...nor would I honestly know how to do one or the other. Love to know more if anyone can shoot me to a reference or provide a condensed layman's version x-mas3

What sound I am looking for....that's such an obvious question yet one I haven't thought to ask myself. I guess I have a "feel" in my mind but I lack the vocabulary to explain....maybe "warm with a good attack"? My 57 (on top) sounds more like a baseball hitting a catcher's mitt (not quite that extreme...the sensitivity is most all there...it just sounds so flat to me)

Is there such an animal as a mic with condenser sensitivity yet with a smaller field so there's minimal bleed in from the other instruments? One that may lend itself towards that warm but sensitive sound I'm looking for?

I'm not much of an engineer Help2so the more "on" I can get the sound using the hardware the better :)

Snare dbl. mic problem: You might need a phase switcher because the mics are real close to each other and the overheads are far away. Usually, the phase problem gets solved by moving/angling the mics differently.

Out of phase is what happens when the sound from a single source (ex: the snare) is picked up by two or more mics that are located at different distances from the source/snare. That means, that the 'closer mics' are going to pick up the sound sooner than the more distant mics. Adjusting the positioning of the mics is one way to fix the phase problem.

You mentioned:

> ... minimal bleed in from the other instruments?

The only way to do that is to isolate the drums (in a separate booth) or, record the drums by themselves. If you've got a bunch of guys playing in the same room, overheads are going to pick up stray sounds from other instruments. The only work-around as I mentioned is to isolate the drums. I did a bunch of recording in the early 90's. The drum tracks were always recorded by themselves. I had a click track and/or the bass/rhythm track playing in the cans and I went for it. The drums were in a small room by themselves. It used to be a vocal booth. But it worked. Nice clean tracks every time.

Hope this helps...

John

Almost any high end engineer would take a 57 in a pinch. Did you throw your bottom mic out of phase? That is pretty critical I believe. Perhaps a better question is what kind of sound are you looking for?[/QUOTE]

I apologize for my ignorance...but I can't say much about whether it is out of phase or not...nor would I honestly know how to do one or the other. Love to know more if anyone can shoot me to a reference or provide a condensed layman's version x-mas3

What sound I am looking for....that's such an obvious question yet one I haven't thought to ask myself. I guess I have a "feel" in my mind but I lack the vocabulary to explain....maybe "warm with a good attack"? My 57 (on top) sounds more like a baseball hitting a catcher's mitt (not quite that extreme...the sensitivity is most all there...it just sounds so flat to me)

Is there such an animal as a mic with condenser sensitivity yet with a smaller field so there's minimal bleed in from the other instruments? One that may lend itself towards that warm but sensitive sound I'm looking for?

I'm not much of an engineer Help2so the more "on" I can get the sound using the hardware the better :)[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of other mic choices out there and there are certainly condenser options though they tend to become pricy pretty quickly. Try adjusting the physical placement of the top mic as well as it's angle. Most guys have them a little flatter than you might think.

While proximity can be a problem, the real issue with phasing is that you have one mic pointing down (more or less) and another pointing up at the same sound source. The sound wave is moving in the same direction so one mic is picking up the wave in a positive direction while the other is picking it up in a negative direction. The end result is cancellation. Imagine hooking up your stereo speakers with left wired correctly and right wired backwards. In simple terms, when one speaker is pushing the air column forward, the other is (well, for lack of a better term) sucking in the other direction. This causes phase cancellation which, in the aforementioned scenario would cause a lot of the i formation that is dead center in the mix to begin to disappear. In the case of the snare drum you need to flip the phase on the bottom mic so that it is in sync with the top mic. Phase reversal is generally handled by a switch on the audio desk, however, if the desk does not have that functionality, you can buy an inline device. Basically, all this does is swap pins 2 and 3 on the mic cable (the two wires that are not the ground/shield). You could also swap pins two and three on one end of a mic cable and do the same thing, however, that mic cable would ALWAYS have to be used with the bottom mic or trouble will ensue. I am not an engineer so I will double check my facts with the guys that REALLY know and get back with you. I will say that there are tons of really unique and interesting things that engineers do with phase cancellation to solve problems. That is how "noise cancellation" works as an example If you ever see old photos of the Greatful Dead specifically, or a lot of rock acts in the late 60's and early 70's with guys using two vocal mics; that is all about phase cancellation and removing background noise to improve gain before feedback. Note the new iPhone ad. Nothing new there. Just phase reversal of two mics.

Back to the sound you are looking for, two questions:

1- is this for live or recording?

2- can you give us an example of a snare sound you like?

Thanks for all the info!!! I'm going to do just as you say prior to sinking any cash on a new mic...I'll check/experiment with the placement of the SM57 as well as set out on a search of exactly what sound I'm looking for.

Thanks for starting me on the right path!

I double checked my facts today and confirmed the need for switching the bottom mic out of phase for the reasons mentioned. It absolutely will not work for you otherwise. Good luck!

Here is some info you will find helpful.

http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/production/when-and-how-to-use-an-under-snare-microphone/

John