Thanks Ploughman for a great summation. It's Rogers history in a nutshell. I printed it for future reference, but when did 12" and 13" toms ever have eight lugs?
Thanks for catching that. OP corrected to reflect that.
SIX lugs on 12 and 13, EIGHT on 14, 16, 18, 20.
Ploughman, thanks for the clarification and that info on shell/ply changes. I'm trying to utilize your dating guide and all the other info you've provided over the years to make a one-page Rogers "cheat-sheet" to use when I examine snares and sets for sale. I'm trying to include all the specific hardware changes such as:
The 1963 switch from B&Bs to Beavertails: Dynas around ser#2700, Powertones around ser#2000, and Holidays around 4xxxx??
Bass T-rod switch from faucet style to flat style: Year?? Ser#??
The 1967 Dayton switch from gray interiors to speckled interior: around Holiday ser#8xxxx ??
The 1968 Dayton switch from round lug screws to hex screws: around Holiday ser #9xxxx ??
Can you fill in any of the x's? As you've pointed out, paper tags were pulled randomly so only approximate serial numbers can be used to pinpoint these transition events. As always, we appreciate all the great Rogers info both you and Dan C provide.
Mike C.
There are no clear cut dividing lines for parts changeovers as far as serial numbers, etc. There is always a lot of overlap, stacks of serial tags being mixed up on different benches etc.
For example, when the new t's and claws came in, it wasn't a clean break. I have seen some basses with new claws/old t's, and old claws/new t's.
Same thing with the speckled paint, etc.
I saw this thread before anybody had replied & was kinda hoping that The Ploughman was going to answer the OP. And there you go: Rogers 101! Thanks!
Bowing
There are no clear cut dividing lines for parts changeovers as far as serial numbers, etc.
Dan,
So true, but just because there exists a little "wiggle room" when it comes to specific hardware (lug types, screws, claws, collets, etc,), it shouldn't be "anything goes" either. With so many "strippers" out there buying perfectly good drums only to sell off the individul shells and hardware separately, we're starting to see strange Frankendrums surface for sale. Players are piecing together shells and hardware from these strippers only to have strippers buy these "restored" drums and strip them all over again... a cycle that could make factory-original configurations extinct.
I acquired a very nice 22" WMP with Fullerton beavertails, claws, t-rods, and cast collets. Should have a speckled interior with a Fullerton or maybe a Dayton tag, right? Nope... solid gray interior with an early Cleveland tag putting it around 1960. 3-ply Jaspar shell with the flatter, round over bearing edges and hardware attached with every type of bolt and screw imaginable. Great shell and I'm very happy with it, but to what extent do we attempt to match up the correct hardware to the correct shells, and at what point do we say, "Ah the hell with it, as long as it's Rogers hardware, who cares?"
Mike C.
2700 is a little low for the Dyna-Sonic B&B to Beavertail transition. That is more like in the 2800 range. I have 2811, a factory Beavertail. That could mean something, and then it might just mean 2811 snuck down to the bottom of the badge dish for a couple weeks or a month. I have seen several factory B&B with numbers in the upper 2800's, along with other Beavertail drums in the same ranges, not sure about being in the 2900s though, you just don't see a lot of drums in those transition ranges. We are only talking about a couple hundred drums at the most, in a very number specific range. You just have to be observant and grab the numbers when they come up to be noticed.
+1 on everything DanC says.
Dan,So true, but just because there exists a little "wiggle room" when it comes to specific hardware (lug types, screws, claws, collets, etc,), it shouldn't be "anything goes" either. With so many "strippers" out there buying perfectly good drums only to sell off the individul shells and hardware separately, we're starting to see strange Frankendrums surface for sale. Players are piecing together shells and hardware from these strippers only to have strippers buy these "restored" drums and strip them all over again... a cycle that could make factory-original configurations extinct. I acquired a very nice 22" WMP with Fullerton beavertails, claws, t-rods, and cast collets. Should have a speckled interior with a Fullerton or maybe a Dayton tag, right? Nope... solid gray interior with an early Cleveland tag putting it around 1960. 3-ply Jaspar shell with the flatter, round over bearing edges and hardware attached with every type of bolt and screw imaginable. Great shell and I'm very happy with it, but to what extent do we attempt to match up the correct hardware to the correct shells, and at what point do we say, "Ah the hell with it, as long as it's Rogers hardware, who cares?"Mike C.
I didn't mean that it doesn't matter. I've voiced concern about drums being reassembled with a grab bag of parts from eBay for quite a while.
What I was referring to is the understandable desire on the part of some collectors for there to be hard and fast rules involving serial numbers, when new parts were intro'd, etc. The safest approach, in my view, is to allow for 3-6 months of overlap when considering timelines, dating etc.
Rogers was a small shop, and nothing was wasted. New parts were introduced gradually, and distributed to the various assemblers in the building.
They would use up the older parts first, but there's plenty of evidence that the new parts were sprinkled in as the old ones were being used up.
I've seen high hoops on a number of beavertail drums, for example. They made no real effort to combine parts changeovers as a 'generational' idea. What they had was used along side of the new stuff.
And as I said, serial tags were spread around the plant and mixed up all the time. Now, obviously, they probably make sense in 90 percent of the cases, but the rest of the time not exactly so.
