PIcs would be his upnice to see how you guys set

Now that set up looks more doable for me, (although I wish I had room for a DB set up) I heard of guys using remote hats with a slave pedal, since most of us only have 2 feet I can see this set up, but slave hats? that I cant figure out

Remote hi hats with a slave pedal are actually quite useful and solve a problem that most of us never realized we had. The only reason a hi-hat is on the left side of the kit (in a typical right handed set up) is because you needed your left foot to operate it. Since right handed set up players tend to be, in fact, right handed, they felt more comfortable leading with their right hand and thus the right over left, goofy hi-hat/snare tradition was born. A few brave and ambidextrious souls opted to play open handed to solve this problem. The rest of us were stuck being crossed over and feeling completely "natural" about it.

Now, with a remote hat, one can control the hat with your left foot and place the cymbals wherever you want. Unfortunately, I no longer play full time, but if I did, I would move my hat to the center of the kit and open up everything. Or at least I would give it a shot. It would certainly be a more natural way to play. Think about how much time you spend playing that first rack tom vs. the amount of time you spend playing hi-hat. Now, which one is more conveniently and ergonomically placed in your kit?

The downside is that most "cable" hi-hat pedals do not feel as good as a standard pedal but hey, I would give it a shot. Vintage? No. But I don't take my horse and buggy to town either. Technology has come a long way. Vintage drums will sound just as good in an unconventional set-up.

As to a standard X-Hat, check out David Garibaldi. He's been doing that and doing it far beyond well for decades.

I would absolutely agree that both hands SHOULD be able to play everything and that is certainly something to which we should all aspire. Who can argue with Joe Morello, or Billy Cobham, Simon Phillips....

The practical application, however, is that this is not the case for the majority working drummers. If it were the case, everyone would play "open handed." In other words, why would you ever want to cross your hands over to play hat and snare if you were just as comfortable playing it the other way unless it was just for show.

I've said it before; I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

I find it even more interesting when guys that play electronic kits continue to leave their hi-hat on the left. Truly, the only thing connecting the "cymbals" with the pedal is a 1/4" signal cable. At that point, put the hats anywhere. Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box as the technology catches up to us.

I did the remote hi-hat thing with the hats in the 12:00 position (ala Bill Bruford) for awhile. It took a while to get used to but once I did it felt great. Eventually, however, I gravitated back to a traditional setup because for me the benefits of the remote hi-hat (no crossing over, freedom to explore left side sound options) were outweighed by the practicality of a traditional configuration (comfort, familiarity, backline situations).

If it's something you're serious about trying, I would investigate some options besides the "normal" cable remote hi-hat rigs. The Remote Speedy Hat and the DW 9550 Universal Remote Hat offer action that is as good or better than a standard hi-hat stand. I owned the DW rig and it felt as smooth and as fast as a normal hi-hat stand.

[IMG]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/ryanculberson/PaisteB8Goodnes002.jpg[/IMG]

Cheers,

Ryan

Way back in the mid 60s, The Turtles drummer John Barbata was effectively using a second set of hats on the right side of his Rogers kit. He also had splash cymbals mounted on top and above his crashes. WAY ahead of the learning curve.

Ginger baker did pretty much the same thing less the hats he stacked as many as three cymbals on one stand...all you double bass players with reach problems need to get a hi hat to bass drum mount so your left foot is right next to either yout bass drum pedal or slave pedal it looks like this and is so easy to play....

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/1.jpg[/IMG]

My initial training was more jazz than rock based. I can't use remote hats because of the slack response from the cable set-up. I get my time from my hats. I'm a heel/toe player and regardless of what I'm doing with the rest of my limbs, the hats are 'chicking' out a steady rhythm in the background that everything else is built on. The delayed response from remote hats using a cable system throws me off badly.

Maybe I'm in a minority, using your hats to get your time is an old-school thing. Used mostly by jazz players. It's just become such an integral part of my playing that using slushy cable operated remote hats is out for me.

Tough to teach an old dog new tricks sometimes. Great thread, some very thoughtful and informative responses here. Good info.

John

Well said as usual Purdie. I would have to agree that the cable hats I have tried did not lend themselves to overly sensitive playing; either "chicks" or foot "splashes". The other types mentioned earlier would be worth investigating.

Of course, anytime you try to do something avant garde you will run into problems on festival dates, sit ins and backline provided dates. Just thinking outside the box.

I don't think using hats to mark time is exclusively an old-school thing or a jazz thing, Purdie. Lots of awesome contemporary rock/pop players make expert use of their left foot on a hi-hat.

The DW stand that I mentioned in my previous post played exactly like a regular hi-hat stand... foot splashes and fast foot patterns were easily achieved and there was zero latency in the system. From what I've heard, the same is true for the Remote Speedy Hat system as well.

It was an experiment for me, and one that I enjoyed. In the end, however, I decided to go back to a traditional configuration. That is how I learned to play and how I am most comfortable (an old-school thing, I guess... :p). The advantages of the 12:00 hi-hat position were far outweighed by the decades of practice and application of my playing with a traditional setup.

Cheers,

Ryan