Hi all
Just picked up a really nice Acrolite from the 60's.
(it has white felt/BB arm & P-83).
Badge serial number 256884 dates to 1965 (per VDG) but I'm not sure on the date stamp. I think May 12 1968 (very close to the day I was born!) but my gal thinks it could be a smudged 5 or 6.
What do you guys think the date is?
I know there are discrepancies (I have read) between badges & date stamps.
But which would come first?
The badge or the date stamp?
Thanks!
I think 1968. have you tried the rims yet magnet test, brass would validate 1965, steel 1968.
Good call. The magnet stuck. 1968.
Maybe this is one of those badges that was in a box lying around the factory.
comparing to the records that I have, that would usually be a late 65/early 66 drum leaning more towards the latter. but that stamp does look like 68. could have grabbed an old badge in the back of the box or the ink stamp could have been set wrong, or a smudge that we can't read.
mike
I am leaning toward 1966 on this for a couple of reasons.
1. The baseball bat tone control would have been unlikely on a May 1968 drum, as the switch to the round knob on non-marching drums seems to have occurred in the March 1968 time frame. An Acrolite from May 1968 would likely have had a small knurled knob rather than a baseball bat.
2. The last digit in the date stamp does not quite look the same as the "8" that I have seen on other 1968 date stamps. The bottom of the number on the subject drum looks too rounded when compared to the 8 seen on the attached stamps. These 8s are not two circles touching, but the intersection is more like an X. To me, it looks more like the bottom of a 6 than an 8. The stamp on the subject drum was applied at an angle rather than vertically. When stamps are vertical (perpendicular to the edge), there is less distortion. When they are not vertical, stamps are often incomplete, distorted or both.
3. The serial number is more consistent with a 1966 date.
That said, I cannot explain the hoops, as I do not know when different hoops were used. I defer to vintagemore2000 on that one. It raises the questions in my mind - When did the switch in hoop composition occur? Has this been tracked and identified?
Perhaps this has been modified or simply was a factory original drum with a slightly peculiar combination of parts. If anything is not as it was coming from the factory, it does not appear to be the date stamp or the badge, as the grommet looks clean. The tone control or the hoops could have been changed.
Markrocks - can you look closely at the tone control and see if it looks original?
Rick
most all of my 65 drums have steel hoops. I occasionally run across a 65 drum with brass hoops or even one of each.
mike
looks like 1966 to me......
as for everything else...mmmmm...
learning everyday
Bop iT / Til U Drop iT.
I am leaning toward 1966 on this for a couple of reasons.1. The baseball bat tone control would have been unlikely on a May 1968 drum, as the switch to the round knob on non-marching drums seems to have occurred in the March 1968 time frame. An Acrolite from May 1968 would likely have had a small knurled knob rather than a baseball bat.2. The last digit in the date stamp does not quite look the same as the "8" that I have seen on other 1968 date stamps. The bottom of the number on the subject drum looks too rounded when compared to the 8 seen on the attached stamps. These 8s are not two circles touching, but the intersection is more like an X. To me, it looks more like the bottom of a 6 than an 8. The stamp on the subject drum was applied at an angle rather than vertically. When stamps are vertical (perpendicular to the edge), there is less distortion. When they are not vertical, stamps are often incomplete, distorted or both.3. The serial number is more consistent with a 1966 date.That said, I cannot explain the hoops, as I do not know when different hoops were used. I defer to vintagemore2000 on that one. It raises the questions in my mind - When did the switch in hoop composition occur? Has this been tracked and identified?Perhaps this has been modified or simply was a factory original drum with a slightly peculiar combination of parts. If anything is not as it was coming from the factory, it does not appear to be the date stamp or the badge, as the grommet looks clean. The tone control or the hoops could have been changed.Markrocks - can you look closely at the tone control and see if it looks original?Rick
I agree.The transition from brass to steel was 65.I think by May 66,Ludwig would have used up their inventory of brass hoops,and transitioned completely to steel.
The last digit does look like a smudged 6 to me and looks like some dirt may have gotten into the open end of the 6.I agree also that the hoops,although Ludwig,may have been changed also.
The white felt BB tone control is also consistant with a 66 date.I thing that transition from red felt was 65 also.
But...........with Ludwig,you just never know for sure.
Steve B
Hi all & thanks for all the great input.
I attached a pic of the tone control arm(baseball bat) & it is original.
I also added another shot of the date stamp.
This drum has all the correct parts for the correct year of 1965/66.
I went back to the VDG & see that the serial number coincides with around Dec 1965.
I have another pristine acrolite from 1966. It's serial number is 308434 with a date stamp inside of March 23 1966. This one makes sense.
I'm thinking this drum may have been made in late 65 & it's just a crappy stamping job.
I bet the guys who made these drums never would of thought we would be looking at their work so closely all these years later.
Pretty cool.
Hi all & thanks for all the great input.I attached a pic of the tone control arm(baseball bat) & it is original.I also added another shot of the date stamp.This drum has all the correct parts for the correct year of 1965/66.I went back to the VDG & see that the serial number coincides with around Dec 1965. I have another pristine acrolite from 1966. It's serial number is 308434 with a date stamp inside of March 23 1966. This one makes sense.I'm thinking this drum may have been made in late 65 & it's just a crappy stamping job. I bet the guys who made these drums never would of thought we would be looking at their work so closely all these years later.Pretty cool.
I would suggest that the date stamp correctly indicates the date that the shell was stamped and that the shell is not from late 1965. It says May 1966 on it after all. The serial number on the badge is certainly within the acceptable range that might show up on a shell with that date stamp.
Ingberman's Chart #1 on the vintage drum guide does not provide precise estimates and interpolation between points in the chart does not improve the accuracy of the estimate. Ingberman hand selected 17 data points to represent typical values and results in a very neat and orderly presentation. Unfortunately, the variation that Ingberman and others acknowledge in the serial number/date stamp relationship is not expressed in this chart. Ingberman expresses this is the accompanying article, but this is not immediately apparent and has caused many to err when developing date estimates.
Do not forget that it is generally accepted that serial numbers were not used in precise numerical order and the shells were not presented for final assembly in strict date order. A certain amount of variation is normal. I would suggest that the important term in your statement is "around." That you have a drum with a March 1966 date stamp and a higher serial number does not mean that the acro being discussed was made earlier than March 1966. The 256884 badge may have been used after the 308434 or the May shell may have been pulled for final assembly before the March shell, or some combination of the two.
A new look at the serial number/date stamp relationship is close to ready for publication. It is based upon over 1,000 data pairs, so the results should be a bit more reliable than prior efforts.
Rick
