I love trying to figure out the specifics of vintage drum kits. This one is really interesting.

Here is a link to the 1977 and 1981 Gretsch catalogs, which should help you.

http://www.gretschdrums.com/ebooks/DC_77/index.html#/1/

http://www.gretschdrums.com/ebooks/catalog_1/index.html#/1/

Based on your pictures, I'm going to take a stab at identification. I'm only a novice, so I could be wrong. There are a lot of Gretsch experts here that will hopefully chime in. Posting the model numbers of all of the drums would be helpful.

- based on the close sequential serial numbers, these drums came as a set.

- based on the wrap not extending to the bearing edge and the stained finish on some of the toms, it appears some of the drums may have been re-wrapped.

- shell finish under the wrap looks like Red Rosewood (see last page of catalog).

- the bass drum has two sets of tom mounting holes, one in the middle and the other closer to the batter head. The two holes in the center are actually covered with wrap and look like style used for the Monster Double Tom Tom Holder.

- the tags do not have the phrase "Guaranteed for Life" and have hand written model numbers, so I am going to guess very late 70's.

- I noticed in some of the pictures of the Tom Toms, the bottom lugs look like they are mounted further away from the bearing edge, which makes me wonder if it used to be a concert tom tom that someone added the bottom lugs and resonant hoop. The model number should tell us if it was a concert tom tom.

- the bass drum spurs internally extend up towards the top of the shell and appear to be one of the types shown in the 1981 catalog

- the wrap may have been trimmed back to accommodate modern heads, but by the late 70's early 80's you would think this wouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully Rick will see this thread and add his thoughts.

Tim

Those elongated "double D" holes look like they were cut with a jig saw. How were the Pearl tom mounts attached? We can certainly see the outline of their vari-set mounts but they should have had three screw holes.

I think Tim did a good job of assessing the drums. I might move the manufacturing date up a little based upon the serial numbers, but otherwise he seems to be right on the mark.

I don't know if you expected all of the serial numbers to line up in sequence, but I would certainly not expect that of Gretsch drums. During the later 1970s and 1980s there are more reports of drums within a factory set with consecutive serial numbers than in the 1960s, but within 100 is not at all alarming for a set that might have come together originally.

Why aren't you keeping the set together? Too many modifications on the toms/bass?

Rick

The bottom bearing edges have the grey sealer on them which leads me to believe that they were not concert toms. I also measured the distance from lug to edge and they are consistent on each tom, so that may just be an illusion in the photograph. I do agree that the mount holes on the toms look sloppily done although they are very similar to other Gretsch mount holes I have seen. Do the rack toms have extra holes, or are the two holes above and below the large mount opening correct?

Any thoughts on the, somewhat crooked, muffler holes? Normal for Gretsch drums from this era? I've never seen this on a round badge kit.

I'm having trouble figuring out why some of the drums may have been rewrapped while others weren't if each drum is original to the kit (based on serial numbers).

The model numbers are as follows:

Kick- 4247

Rack 1- 4415

Rack 2- 4416

Floor 1-4417

Floor 2- 4418

I would definitely keep them together if the bass drum wasn't so heavily modified.

The photo below shows the interior of one of the toms with the pearl mount attached. Thanks guys.

[IMG]http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd490/GAHT/Gretsch70s/IMG_4683.jpg[/IMG]

The tom-mount holes look accurate, except for the slop. Top and bottom holes mount the hexball mount to the drum.

B

Sorry, I'm a little confused. What do you mean by slop? The hexball mount was original to the kit, yes?

Thanks for the additional information.

Based on the responses, here's my guess:

Model - Grand Prix in Red Rosewood

Standard Pieces Included:

14x22 Kick - 4247

8x12 Rack Tom - 4415

9x13 Rack Tom - 4416

16x16 Floor Tom - 4418

Monster Double Tom Mount - 4925

Hex Ball Tom Mounts

Special Ordered at Purchase:

14x14 Floor Tom - 4417

Theory #1 - Later in life, White Nitron wrap and the Pearl mounting system were added. Owner didn't have enough wrap to completely cover all of the drums, so some of the toms wrap do not go all of the way to the bearing edge.

Theory #2 - Special rush order was placed for a Nitron White kit, some Red Rosewood pieces were available and White Nitron wrap was added to match the rest of the kit. Newer drum heads did not fit the Red Rosewood shells with White Nitron wrap, so the owner cut back the wrap away from the bearing edges. This explains the glue residue. The owner eventual replaces the hex ball tom mounts with Pearl mounts, because they probably were the only style available at the time which fit without drilling into the tom tom shells. If you look closely, you can see the circular lines on the wrap from where the hex ball mounts used to be. Plus the router and bearing edge cuts look like the wrap was already installed on the shell. The cuts are really clean. Look at the mount holes in the bass drum. The shell originally had the Monster Double Tom Mount in the stock center location, which used the bolt holes closest to the tom tom post holes. Owner installed the Pearl mount, opened up the post holes and drilled new bolt holes. Owner didn't like the tom mount position, so they drilled new tom tom post holes and bolt holes then moved the mount closer to the resonant bearing edge. They re-wrapped the bass shell to cover up the center holes. I am guessing, if you remove the Pearl mount, you will see the hole for the bass drum badge. Badge grommets for the tom toms have the same patina as the badge and the back sides look original too.

I'm leaning towards theory #2.

For the most part, this kit is a prime candidate for a re-wrap. Solid color wrap is the cheapest. The Tom Toms contain no extra holes and the bass drum's extra holes can be plugged, sanded and painted with Silver Sealer (Aluminum Rust-o-lium) and the new wrap will cover the other side.

This is a very versatile and most importantly, complete kit that can be configured multiple ways. 22"/12"/14", 22"/13"/16", or full bore 22"/12"/13"/14"/16" :D

Did this set come with a snare? The Grand Prix's standard snare was the elusive 4165 - 5x14 COB 10 lugger. I have one and it is a beast.

Was this intended as a player's kit or an investment? How many cracks are in the wrap? This will determine if you should re-wrap. They might just need a couple stages of Novus and some elbow grease. They really don't look yellowed at all. At the least the bass drum could be re-wrapped. I'd keep it together, if it was my kit.

Please keep us updated and thanks for posting.

Tim

I was referring to the messy radii on the large hole, as slop, short for sloppy. However, I've seen some questionable lug holes on 70's Gretsch toms, too.

Yes, the hexball was original for mid-70's toms, unless ordered with something else. Your tom also has the cut interior tag, without the "Lifetime Shell" guarantee. Puts it later 70's. Maybe you already mentioned that.

Looks like a fun project.

B

Thanks guys. Very cool.