I play a 4-piece kit live with an originals-only pop/rock act. Most of the time, I am able to get away with just a bass drum mic (a Shure Beta 52a), due to venue size and volume requirements. If we play a venue that requires more, I have three of the Sennheiser e604s that get clipped to the snare, mounted tom, and floor tom, respectively. The vocal mics usually capture bleed from my cymbals and project it well enough to the audience. I love the convenience and the sound of the e604s. So clean and easy to deal with.

That being said, most of my gigs now are in venues that have in-house sound guys. Most of the time they are great, but occasionally... UGH!

Here's a quick and dirty pic of the e604s on one of my sets...

[IMG]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/ryanculberson/c90d6f32.jpg[/IMG]

I have two mic setups for my Downbeat:

For rock gigs:

Bass drum - Audix D-6

Snare - Audix I-5

Rack tom - Audix D-2

Floor tom - Audix D-R

For world music gigs:

Bass drum - AKG D112

Snare, rack tom, floor tom - Shure 57s all around

The Audix mics give a nice, pre-EQed punchy sound. The Shure/AKG setup allows more "breath" in the sound. I always use AKG C1000s for live overheads, and a Rode NT1000 pair for studio overheads.

rculberson - Try the set-up I showed you when you have to do your own sound set-up. Faster, easier and works great. It's a four mic mix instead of the more traditional 5 (or more) mics.

Yes, the e-604's are the bomb. I love mine. The AKG is killer too. Thanks for posting the set-up shot. Your traditional mic set-up is why I started this thread. I felt freed up after I learned the 4-mic set-up. Takes a lot of hassle out of the equation.

caddywumpus - I used an Audix D6 mic at a bunch of hotel gigs we used to do and I thought it sounded raw/buzzy. Maybe it was just a bad mic or a bad mix. Having a sound guy that knows what he's doing matters a lot.

The set-up I diagrammed would eliminate having different set-ups for different gigs. The kit coverage you get out of the overhead condensers is excellent. Mixing is a breeze. Just set-up and play. I hate set-up and tear-down when there's a lot of cables and mics and such. Anything that makes it easier on the drummer, is ok by me. Thanks for sharing the info. So far three drummers, three different set-ups. Lots to learn and to compare here.

John

Hey John,

I have used your setup in the past with fairly good results. The only limitation (for me, a ham-fisted pop/rock player) with using the overheads is dealing with the cymbals. I'm almost always playing in venues where the cymbals can carry their own sound to the back of the room and beyond. My specific problem is projecting volume on the toms and bass drum out to the audience, and occasionally the snare as well. Close miking the drums and leaving the cymbals to ring naturally has been the best solution for me.

When I play festivals or larger events, there are usually overheads employed along with close mics on the individual drums, but the festival gigs are invariably backline situations where I'm forced to deal with whatever and whoever is there.

Cheers,

Ryan

Ryan - I used to mic every thing up because I've always played vintage Ludwig drums mostly and they are notorious for not being loud. With vintage tubs, 'warm' and 'loud' are a trade-off. I always needed the mics to be heard over all the electrified and amplified stuff. In the last 30 years or so, I've played in two Blues bands and two Hendrix/SRV cover bands. Lots of competition for the drums in the mix. Even in some small rooms, the drums would get lost in the mix. The guitars, bass and the keyboards were all using the same frequencies as the drums and un-mic'ed, the tubs would just disappear in the din.

The two overheads work for me, they pick up the entire kit evenly, brass included. It's always been a simple matter of balancing the overheads with the snare and kick mics. It's an easy mix (I use a small mixer between the mics and the board,) then the mixer goes right into the board. It was just really nice not to have to deal with all the mics, cables and mixing when I'm using the lighter set-up. Like I said earlier, quick and dirty set-up, saves a ton of time and hassle. The set-up works equally well outdoors.

I know what you mean about the brass being able to cut all on their own. You must have/use a 'bright' set of cymbals that can cut. Yes? Mine are Istanbul Sultans and they have a tendency to be dark, with lots of stick and slightly trashy sounding (which I like,) but because they are so dark, they can stand the amplification of the overheads without overpowering the drums. Have you ever tried the abbreviated mic set-up with another set of cymbals?

I'm curious if the brightness or darkness of the brass makes a difference with this set-up. I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that maybe very bright brass with a strong wash that really cuts would overpower the drums using the overheads. I just never had that problem. If I did, I'd probably go your route and mic all the tubs. You don't want a loud cymbal wash to bury the drums. Bad sound.

John

Absolutely correct on all counts, John!

My gigging kit is a 1982 Tama Superstar, 13, 16, 22, with any number of snare drums but mostly a 5X14 Ludwig BB from the early 90's (bronze shell). My cymbals of choice are old A Zildjians from the 50's and 60's. After many years of searching for the cymbal sound that suited me best, I finally decided on a classic set of Zildjians that are just great all-around cymbals. That being said, those cymbals are pretty loud.

The only reason any of this is very important to me is the context of the music I'm playing. These original pop songs are vocal and guitar heavy, and my parts are more drum oriented and much less cymbal oriented than many other styles of music. As it stands, when we play live I'm playing my cymbals at about 50% volume/power/velocity and often that is still too much.

In most other circumstances, I would full agree with your miking strategy. I only posted mine for the sake of healthy discussion. But yes, absolutely yes... cymbal choice is paramount here!!!

Best,

Ryan

> I only posted mine for the sake of healthy discussion.

That's what it's all about and your input is greatly appreciated. It's a gas for me to be able to talk to other drummers and to compare notes. One of the big reason's I spend so much time here. I only wish we had the Internet 40 years ago! Being able to communicate and share with other drummers/players is a wonderful thing and something I value.

Good talking to you...

John

Yessir, I agree completely. I very much enjoy the exchange of information and appreciate the respectful interaction!

When I do play out these days, I play in a room that has volume issues in the neighborhood, so miking up the drums is a no-no. Drums don't need to be miked to me heard in most cases, just like guitar players don't need 100 watt Marshall stacks for a small club. Try a Fender Champ for a change!

Purdie, the mike technique you've posted is the "Glyn Johns" studio miking setup. Works great for a recording session, but not so sure for a large venue where close miking might be better. But, as I stated, these days I don't have the need to mike up the drums. Its rather freeing actually, not having to watch out for accidentally whacking a mike, or worrying about bad cables, or a lousy sound guy who has no idea how to eq or mike a drumkit. Damned if I'm ever gonna cut a hole in my front bass drum head to satisfy some goober who calls himself a "sound guy" too!

The Band