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Ludwig in September and Early October 1970 Last viewed: 5 hours ago

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After reading and posting in a few recent threads about Ludwig badges without serial numbers, I wanted to revisit the topic of Ludwig and what they were doing in September 1970 and early October 1970. Here is what I have observed:

1. Very few drums with September 1970 and early October 1970 date stamps have serial numbers on their badges. [Database has one from September and five from October 1-10, 1970.]

2. A handful of drums with September 1970 date stamps have Keystone badges without serial numbers. [Database has seven blank Keystone badge drums with date stamps SEP 01 1970 through SEP 3 1970.]

3. A significant number of drums with September 1970 / early October 1970 date stamps have Blue/Olive badges without serial numbers. [Database has eighteen blank B/O badge drums from SEP 10 1970 through SEP 30 1970 and two more September 1970 drums with blank badges with hand etched numbers. Database also has eighteen blank B/O badge drums from October 1-10, 1970.]

4. The practice of trimming off the bottom portion of Blue/Olive badges for metal shelled drums with center beads did not appear to align in time with September 1970. Instead, the drums I have seen which have date stamps and trimmed badges are from January - February 1970 and late 1971. There are other reports of trimmed badges, but no large concentration of them.

5. Blue/Olive badges were introduced in later 1969, so the blank badges we see in September 1970 do not represent the first Blue/Olive badges, but pop up about a year into the Blue/Olive era. This is counter to the oft-quoted statement that the first Blue/Olive badges had no serial numbers.

6. It is well accepted that Ludwig did not apply its badges in strict serial number order or use its shells in strict date stamp order. Although there is a high correlation between serial number and date stamp, there is not an exact link and exceptions exist. Nonetheless, as detailed above, there is a pretty high concentration of blank badge drums in September 1970 and first ten days of of October 1970.

7. My database currently consists of 2660 drums with both date stamps and badges with serial numbers or which visibly lack serial numbers (confirmed blank badges - not just badges that I could not read) from late 1963 through mid-1972. It incorporates the published lists from Rob Cook, Mike Machat, Ned Ingberman, Clay Taylor Greene and Paolo Sburlati. While this represents just a fraction of drums produced by Ludwig during this time period, it seems to be a fairly representative sample.

8. Meanwhile, Ludwig Standards did not have any noticeable bump in its use of serial numbers on its badges in September - October 1970. Blank Standard badges seem to show up a little later, although more data is needed to firm up this observation.

My questions:

1. Anyone have Ludwig drums with September 1970 or October 1-10, 1970 dates? If so, please share the details about their badges.

2. Any thoughts on what was going on with Ludwig during this forty day period - September 1 - October 10, 1970?

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 8 years ago
#1
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I have an Aug. 28 1970 w B/O badge. It is an 8 lug Acro with Factory Imperials

Posted on 8 years ago
#2
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Serial# 804790

Posted on 8 years ago
#3
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B/O Acrolite, datestamped Oct. 5, 1970. No serial number.

1 attachment
Posted on 8 years ago
#4
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Allen - Thanks for your report of a late August drum. I have recorded one blank B/O badge drum dated AUG 26 1970 and few with serial numbers that are dated AUG 28 1970. September seems to be when the vast majority of the blank badges get started.

David - Yours is already included in the count.

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 8 years ago
#5
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I have actually logged a few drums that are from June of 1970 that have no serial number badges. one set I saw was June 19 1970 and it was a Hollywood in silver sparkle. The other was a June 16 1970 super classic in WMP. None of the drums have serial numbers either. Years ago I had a B/O badge acro with no date stamp but the badge had a scratched in 4 digit number. I thought it was a fluke but I have seen several others with a scratched in number just like mine was.

Right now Gary Bender from drum factory is selling a WMP downbeat that is just gorgeous. It has keystone badges on all drums, serial numbers around 721264(the floor tom) yet the 12 is from Aug 1969, the bass drum is sep 1969 and the floor tom is stamped Oct 1970! That's pretty odd...

I have seen other stuff too. I saw on CL a green sparkle super classic stamped Oct 23 1970 and all three drums had serials around 808xxx. A Hollywood sky blue pearl stamped Aug 19 1970. All drums have serials around 801xxx-803xxx. These are just some examples I have come across. Hope this is all helpful...

"wfl does not stand for world football league!"
Posted on 8 years ago
#6
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What I have tended to notice is that the drums that I see with dates that are pretty off from the serial numbers are drums in either an odd finish that was most likely a slow seller or an odd size that did not get sold as often as the more common sizes. By 1970 14x14 sized drums were not nearly as popular as they once were. Bigger sized drums were more popular so seeing 16" floor toms and up was much more common.

Also the color citrus mod was turning out to be a dud so it seems that by mid 1970 a lot of those drums were covered with black panther. It didn't help either that Ludwig did not actively promote citrus mod and although it came out around mid-late 1968, it never made a catalog until 1970. peoples tastes were changing as well and mod orange was terminated as well by 1972. I mention these colors because it seems like these were more likely to sit around the factory as they had a harder time moving them then a popular color like silver sparkle.

"wfl does not stand for world football league!"
Posted on 8 years ago
#7
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I have Jun 17 1970 stamped in this blank badge Supra

Posted on 8 years ago
#8
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I also have a block of blank B/O badges from June 1970. For this thread I did not focus on those, but there are other blank B/O badges that pop up in June and other time frames. However, I am always happy getting new information, so hit me with any blank B/O badge drums you have.

Here is what I already have for June 1970 - the 2nd, 16th, 17th, 19th and 24th. The 2nd is a Sky Blue 9x13 reported by Osahead2. The 16th was WMP set in Amsterdam reported by Osahead2, so I think this is the one wflkurt identifies. The 17th was the one provided by markrocks68. The 19th was an Acrolite owned by Tim Hornbeck with a serial number scratched into it. I do not have the Silver Sparkle set from June 19th that wflkurt describes, so please send me the details. The 24th includes a Champagne Sparkle 14x22 listed on eBay by seller mrfathead and a Downbeat set in Silver Sparkle with a Supraphonic reported by Mike Machat. I suspect that only one drum on this last set had the June 24 date stamp, but cannot verify.

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 8 years ago
#9
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Hey Dad!I have a Ludwig Pro Beat(24x14,14x10,13x9,16x16,and18x16).B/O badges with no serial numbers.The 16x16 has stamp Sept.29unreadable year.The18x16 has Sept. 29,1970.Oh, It is Red,Silver,Blue sparkle.Anyone have a Red,Silver,Blue Sparkle?

Ludwig collection of sets and pioneer snare drums.
Example of Rogers,Slingerland,Gretsch,Premier and Ajax sets.
Various '60's and '70's US,English and Japanese snare drums.
HELP,NEED MORE SPACE!
Posted on 8 years ago
#10
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