yes

yes

and the bearing edges can look like a$$

lol

Interesting ... the bearing edges on mine look pretty good.

The chrome wrap looks like a 10 year old took a pair of snips and hacked away.

It's hard to believe Buddy Rich would accept that type of craftsmanship. Of course, his drums were probably pristine.

-Tim

Tim!

... actually, no ... Buddy's were the same as anyone else's! A lot of the Fibes drum building was done all by hand, and especially so the early 1st generation models which Buddy's were. I have a full set of 1967/68 Fibes COF Buddy Rich's, built at approx. the same time his were! The chrome wrap/edges vary in their roughness, as I'm sure they were cutting those sheets with tin snips! :) I ended up smoothing out three of the toms with a file and by hand. They came out great! Bearing edges were all good though! Later, when CFMartin took over Fibes in 1979, shell interiors IMPROVED greatly! ... but the real metal wraps were STILL pretty rough. GREAT drums though, and I gig these steady. My Rogers are jealous! Here are a few pics ...

Tommyp

I don't think he was as concerned about those things as with the sound he got out of the drum. He may have never even noticed if he had someone else (drum tech) doing the set up and day to day maintenance. Also, back then drums in general were not typically built to the degree of fit and finish we all seem to expect today.

Buddy very briefly used a whole set of Fibes in the 60's but quickly moved on to Vox (and pretty quickly after that on to Slingerland). Whether this was due to him chasing endorsement bucks or for other reasons is hard to know but he must not have been real enthusiastic about the Fibes set to have dropped it so quickly...however he did keep using those Fibes snare drums well into his Slingerland stint as it was often photographed behind one of those sets. Buddy got yelled at by Slingerland for using that snare yet continued to do so. He must have really liked it, or, Buddy being Buddy, enjoyed twisting Slingerland's tail. He does seem to have stopped using it by the time he moved on again, back to Ludwig, and I've never seen a picture of the Fibes behind one of the Ludwig sets. Maybe the Ludwig snares were deemed sufficient, or perhaps Ludwig had a clause in whatever contract they may have had with Buddy to rule out using "outside" drums.

I have one of those Chrome on Fiberglass SFT snares (missing the original throw though) and I like it quite a bit. It is one of my "go-to" snares for outdoor gigs. As I recall the interior of the shell is not finished off too nicely (painted black but somewhat rough). I never really noticed much about the wrap but, like my early 70's Chrome on Wood Ludwig set, that is real chrome plated sheet steel wrapped around the shell. The edges of the wrap on my Ludwigs are not particularly neat either and were probably cut with tin-snips (doubtful that whatever they typically cut the plastic wraps with would have worked) although that's all hidden by the heads and therefore was likely considered "good enough".

K.O.!

There was no clause in Buddy's contract with Ludwig, and if there were, it wouldn't have mattered to Buddy anyway, as you well know! :) I have researched Buddy's snare drums/history to the 9's, and have ALL the snare drums he played between 1950 and 1982 to back that up .. so .. I agree. I think he was quite content with the Ludwig metal snare drums during his 3rd and final go round with them in 1978, thus the Fibes SFT690/COF was never seen again! Also, your timeline is a little off ... Buddy was with Trixon/VOX PRIOR to playing the full Fibes set on a regular basis. That said though, you are correct as each of those "experiments" lasted but approx. 6 months each! Tin snips is also correct as I made mention of exactly that in my initial post!~ By the way, just to throw this out there: Everyone assumes that BR was a drum W H O R E and would play ANYTHING for the right price .. except .. no money was offered to the artist on drum endorsements until Trixon/VOX started it in 1967! They came out BIG with the bucks for Buddy ... and he was only too glad to play their brand! After that, the gloves were off, and Slingerland came in with their offer which also included a cash stipend. Prior to all of that, in order ... Slingerland, WFL, and then Rogers ... no cash offered to BR to play their drums, and Buddy was good with that ... until Trixon/VOX!

Tommyp

I've saw your display (or someone's) of all Buddy's snare drums at the Chicago show a couple years back. Quite impressive.

I'd always heard that it was Rogers that first offered Buddy a pay to play endorsement deal but I'm sure you've researched this more than anyone. Certainly more than I have. If Vox was the first to offer such a deal they didn't get too much in return, or at least not for long. When you think about it that was probably the ONLY way Buddy would have ended up playing those drums.

K.O.!

Now come on ... you KNOW that was me and my display at the Chicago Show. You've been a member here long enough to put that all together. I always considered you to be a sharp guy! It's too bad you didn't introduce yourself at the Chicago show, as we could have chatted. Anyway, true ... Trixon/VOX got about 6 months of visibility for their investment with Buddy, and maybe a little more mileage after the fact, but not much! Rogers did not have a cash deal with Buddy or any of their other endorsers that I have ever been able to uncover. If they did, it was kept completely silent! After Trixon/VOX, Slingerland had very little choice if they wanted "The World's Greatest Drummer" on their roster... they had to come up with the cash. The irony of all this is that Buddy ended his illustrious career with no drum company endorsement! The Avedis Zildjian Company never abandoned him though. They were with Buddy 'till his passing in April of 1987.

Tommyp

I was 99% sure those were your snare drums but as soon as I had posted "I saw your cool display of Buddy's snare drums" your reply would have been "what display?"

I try to keep my wording not totally set in stone on these forums, especially when shooting from the hip....like mixing up the Vox/Fibes timeline. I thought that when I thought it was Vox then Fibes before that someone had corrected me that it was the other way....so I zigged instead of zagged so I was almost right but I came out wrong.

If Buddy had lived longer I'd bet he might have moved from those Radio Kings on to DW, once they could afford him, "little clocks" and all.

He managed to avoid Gretsch, who were pretty parsimonious in their endorsement deals (1 set to use, give it back when you are due a new one). I was always surprised Pearl never snared him, at least for a while. They got Louie, Ed, Art, and Elvin at various points in the 70's but not Buddy. Maybe it was a WWII thing as he was an ex-Marine and also of the generation that took Pearl Harbor very personally.

Somewhere I heard/read/dreamed that Grossman paid him $5,000 (or was it $50,000) to leave Ludwig and play Rogers. But then I hear/read/dream a lot of things. The Dyna and the superior hardware may have done the trick all by themselves. Supposedly he left only because CBS, the new owners of Rogers, weren't interested in putting his band on their record label.

K.O.!

So many "gray" areas here though .. meaning .. Buddy DID technically play Fibes prior to his Trixon/VOX endorsement, but NOT the complete Fibes set! It was just the snare drum actually, and truth be told, he was playing a Fibes snare drum while with Rogers .. and .. he was caught playing a G&MCustom snare drum disguised as a Rogers COB Dynasonic in/around 1966. Buddy liked Joe Thompson, Ben Strauss, and Rogers!, so when he was asked to please STOP playing the G&MCustom snare drum, he did! For a while. :) G&M stands for Grauso & Morena, and that was the name of their drum company producing fiberglass snare drums prior to becoming Fibes, which would happen within the year. The use/playing of the complete Fibes set happened after he left Trixon/VOX though. Pretty close on the Rogers/CBS debacle ... but there was more to it! Buddy not only wanted a recording contract for the band, but brass instruments too, tour support, and CASH! As we all know, CBS said no, and Buddy said go screw yourself ... although it was a bit more "colorful" than that!

I have always thought the same actually ... had Buddy lived longer, I think he would have been a DW endorser! He was already talking with them when he passed actually .. and .. there is a guy out in CA I believe, that has the prototype BR set that DW built back in 1987. From what I have NOT SEEN, he has never really surfaced with the drums as everyone would LOVE to see them. Actually, now that I think about it, this guy also said that Buddy PLAYED this set for a couple nights! Without fanfare of course. But ... someone at that performance would have seen those DW's and taken some pics ... you would think, right? None have ever surfaced. Interesting stuff for sure! Regarding forums, FB, etc., I try NOT to write anything if I'm not at least 95% sure of it's accuracy, or more! Course, that practice is not shared by most, so you end up with LOTS of conflicting information. So who do you believe/trust? Probably the guy that has facts to back stuff up! ... or pics ... or video ... or, well... you know! :)

Tommyp