hi. my ears have grown used to hearing the sizzle so I've put holes in most of my rides.. If you have a press then you should easily be able to drill a ride, just make sure and use a bit that's designed to drill metal and lots of oil to keep the heat under control. if you see smoke, stop and put some more oil on (metal-on-metal friction makes a lot of heat). heating a cymbal to the point of smoke can damage the tension in that area and you might get cracking around the hole. drill from the bottom so the ride can be completely flat against your drill sufrace. that dark ride you have is probably pretty heavy and will take longer to drill through than a light ride..

also if split rivets add too much sizzle to your ears, try adding the lighter pop rivets that are used with rivet guns, but don't use the gun to apply them as the popping of the gun can crack a lighter ride if used improperly. plus they're harder to take out. i just use pliers to take the long piece out of the center and then put the rivet in the hole and squeeze with pliers underneath so it stays in, much more mellow sizzle that way.

if your ride is heavier on one side and sits at an angle on the stand, drill the holes on the lighter side. i always use at least two rivets, but start with one hole and see how you like the sound. sometimes I like a sizzle sound better with the music than by itself, depending on the cymbal. about your dark ride being a good candidate, if it sounds one-dimensional like a lot of heavier rides do, then it would probably do well to have something else going on like sizzle. i'd put a couple rivets in a try it with the music. if you happen to have a cymbal you don't care about, a cheap throw-away like a wuhan china, etc.. you might want to try drilling that first to get a feel for doing it. good luck..

dcb....thanks for the advice. what do you think of the 3 rivets in a group? they look kinda cool, but with my vintage ludwigs, i think the 6 traditional ones look better. maybe i could do 3 rivets, 120degrees from each other-more traditional looking, but fewer than 6. any thoughts? marko

do you mean a 3 rivet cluster? I'm actually one who prefers (as the player) to have the rivets spaced apart, maybe two on either side or at least maybe 6 inches apart, usually about 1.5 inches from the edge. as the player, you will hear more of a 'stereo' rivet effect, though the audience won't really hear it that way in the music. some famous players have well known rivet 'patterns' (the Mel Lewis 1 and 3 'o-clock pair). the 3 rivets, 120degrees from each other is actually the pattern seen in a Kenny Washington old K. hafta try some out yourself and see what you like, could be a cluster or spaced out..

This may be slightly off-topic...but related, anyway...

I have always loved the sound of a nice sizzle cymbal, but I have never found one that's already made and I fear drilling any of my other cymbals in order to make one into a sizzle cymbal. I'm afraid it might turn out not sounding as good.

I have tried draping the drain chain over the cymbal -tried different size/types of chains, etc. None of them have the effect I need. Plus, whenever I've tried the chain thing, it seems to take a great deal of the sensitivity of the cymbal away. In other words, it "mutes" the cymbal so that the sizzle-effect doesn't start until you play the cymbal more forcefully. I have seen the thing that has a couple of rivets mounted to an armature that screws onto the cymbal post...but never tried one. But, I play REEEEEEALLY quietly and therefore, I need a sizzle cymbal that will react to the slightest touch....as well as needing to be able to react appropriately to ALL volume levels...and one that will not go on and on and on and on....and on sizzling.

Is there such a creature? What is it? Can it be purchased off the shelf and ready-to-go? BTW....I DID try one of those Armand Zildjian "Beautiful Baby!" cymbals that came out a few years ago -DIDN'T like it at all. I thought it was waaaay too heavy for a proper sizzle...but, then again, maybe it wasn't supposed to be "just" a sizzle cymbal.

Anyway, thanks for indulging me on this long post!Burger Kin

i grew up listening to sizzle cymbals-every kid who played had one-but i had no ear for cymbals back then. i do know that they did tend to go on & on &on; but we weren't playing all that sensitively back then, that's for sure. i think smaller rivets might have a quicker decay. some of the zildjian rivets for sale on ebay call for a 3/16 hole; probably a 1/8" rivet-seems pretty big. they sell smaller ones at my hardware store....marko

I too experienced muffling of cymbals when trying to use a ball chain for a sizzle. One more quick thing to try - I cut a couple beads off of the ball chain and tied them to thin thread. I then loop the thread around the wingnut. This approximates a cluster effect and allows you to vary the placement on the cymbal. It does sort of lean toward you when your cymbal is tilted, but it can be avoided when playing fairly easily. At the very least, I would use this method to try several positions before permanently drilling.

BTW, these chains come in different gauges and materials. I use small and large steel and small brass, all with different effects, and very easily changed for different situations - with no extra holes in my cymbals flower

Herb

here's a pic of one of the cymbals I drilled for three rivets, this cymbal leans on a stand so I put them on the opposite side, about 8 inches apart..

[img]http://www.dcbowden.com/images/20_asian_spizz_2140_0.jpg[/img]

I've noticed in various pictures and the Cream Albert Hall DVD that Ginger Baker's 22" Ride has bigger sized rivets in it. Anyone know anything about these larger than normal sized rivets? I'm going to rivet my newly aquired Zilco 22".

Matt