Great questions!

In some cases a new finish can't be properly re-applied...as in the case with Ludwig 3-ply wrapped shells. The wrap was tucked into the scarf joint and so there is no way to get it all off before re-application.

I prefer drums that are as original as possible. Unless I can get them for next to nothing, it doesn't benefit me to go to a lot of expense and labor to really restore a kit. Original is where it's at as far as I'm concerned. I would rather spend the extra money up front for something original and avoid spending the money later that it might take to restore a fixer-upper.

If it's just the sound that matters, but you also want a kit to look good, then a non-original restoration could be just the thing. However, the value of a non-original restoration really, REALLY detracts from the value of an otherwise original kit. If a kit has a lot of holes that need filling, replaced or exchanged hardware, etc., then the value becomes something only a player could love, anyway, so there probably wouldn't be good reason for a collector to go to a lot of trouble for any kit that's been drilled, filled and/or recovered -in all except a very rare model/size/configuration...and even then, it's still very questionable. For the most part, collectors seek perfection and not plastic surgery! ;)

Thank you, O-lugs for the reply. Can we clarify this? If plastic surgery leads to perfection, is perfection still perfection?

If I restore a non-working player piano to perfect working condition using modern materials but materials cosmetically identical to the original, isn't the piano worth more at the end of my restoration than it was before I began? Or is perfection perceived only in the eye of the beholder?

I would say that if it were possible for someone to replace an old original part with an identical modern replacement, then that would be okay, but there is no way to perfectly restore a drum that has had extra holes drilled into it any more than it would be possible for a doctor to perfecrtly restore a person who had a gunshot wound. You can patch things up, but the fact that the structure has become comprimised is always going to leave a scar -no matter how small it may be.

I can only tell you how I look at collecting vintage drums:

#1. If the drum has "extra holes", then I don't bother with it...period.

#2. If the drum has been recovered or re-painted, then I don't bother with it.

On the other hand...if I am looking for a vintage sound for a kit to play on gigs, then I really don't care if the drums have been recovered with non-original finish or if the cymbal tilter is the correct one...whatnot, etc. In fact, I might even prefer a non-original drum because it is less to worry about as far as transporting and things getting bumped et.al.

But COLLECTING is, in my opinion, trying to get pieces that are as "like new" as possible. And insofar as drums that have been "restored"...as I stated earlier...in some cases, it is impossible to ever properly restore some drums (ex. Ludwig 3-ply wrapped shells). No matter how good the plastic surgery is, the knowledge of that imperfection is enough to make a big difference between it and a drum that really is "perfect" (original).

Case in point. I don't know if anyone here will remember the Gretsch Birdland that was on Ebay several years ago... a kit that had been "uncovered" in a little old ladies attic. It was virtually in mint condition. The hardware was GOLD-plated (real gold!) and the finish was a beautiful green paint. It was complete with original Turkish K Zildjians (with original paper labels intact!!!) and original leather cases in near-perfect condition. There were even the original sticks and brushes and lesson books! It went for over $15K and many thought it would go for much more than that!! This was an exceedingly rare kit and it was akin to discovering King Tut's tomb for Gretsch collectors! But these are the things that collectors live for. Whoever won that kit paid a LOT of money for it, but also now owns one of the most complete and original desirable vintage kits in the modern world! worth it? You tell me. They must have thought so!

Personally, I own a particular snare drum that was considered nothing special when it was new. It is a Ludwig 6-lug gold sparkle snare in its original gray suitcase and Gladstone rubber suction practice pad. The drum was found in an old country school when the school closed down and the contents were auctioned off. It had the original Weathermaster heads. It was like finding a drum in a time-capsule. to play this drum is to hear how a real Ludwig drum sounded during that period of time. There is something in the vibe of that kind of originality that counts for something.

I'm facing a similar dilema. I agree with O-Lugs in his general feelings about collector drums and heck yeah I remember that Gretsch set. Anyhow, a few years back I purchased a Sonor 60's era set. It was complete with the exception of the bass mounted cymbal stand and tilter. However, the wrap was already in bad shape and getting worse. One tom shell had water damage and while they are very playable drums they certainly didn't look very good. The original Sonor wrap is not available from any of the firms that sell this stuff. I don't really have any intention of selling off the set and Sonor teardrops don't seem to be of very high value to anyone. It's what I consider a very good players kit. Now several years down the line the finish is getting past the point of just being annoying it's getting downright bad. My current intention is to get a wrap that is similar to the same vintage in a color that Sonor did use in that era. (I'm leaning toward turquoise sparkle). I'll refinish the drum, replace rusted out parts and give it a makeover if you will. I don't intend to do anything radical like changing bass drum spurs or adding some modern tom mount but I think this set will actually have move value as a good restoration than a really crummy original. What would your opinions be on this?

Pete,

If it were me buying the kit from you, in the condition which you described, I would rather have the kit redone. I think that, most of the time, the Prime Directive for collectors, which is not to alter originals, is a good idea. But when a kit becomes unbearably bad, what do you do? It looks horrible, nobody would want to play it out, and its value as a collectors item can really be debated at this point. I say rewrap away. But then again, Im only one voice in a sea of opinion.

For instance, what would you folks do in this situation? You find that Gretsch Birdland kit in an attic, only it aint pristine. It LOOKS like it been in the attic for 40 years. Finish is peeling everywhere, lugs are rusty beyond a polish job rework, hoops are corroded...just terrible. But its rare. Not too many around. But it looks like crap. What do you do?

I guess thats an extreme situation. You could substitute any vintage kit really. At what point does the Prime Directive (apologies to Star Trek fans) no longer apply?

Sounds like an okay candidate for recovering and turning into a player's kit. It's always good to have a kit with the SOUND that you like and one that you can also take to the gigs and load in and out repeatedly without fear of diminishing its possible value as a collectible instrument.

On a side note...I saw an old 60's (I think) Sonor kit with really cool-looking, long thin lugs and it really had a vibe to the look. I almost bid on it. It was a turquoise sparkle finish. Beautiful kit!!

Hey, Pete! You remember that Gretsch kit, too, huh? Cool. That was a beautiful kit. People were speculating that it would sell for over 20K!!! I can't remember the final total it brought, but it was near 15K, I think. Man! I am not even into Gretsch drums, but THAT kit was really something. That was a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

Yes, that was a really find. Sort of like a Stradivarius in the attic kind of story. I also seem to remember a Gretsch Gladstone snare in the Cadillac green with gold finish too. Wonder if Steve Maxwell knows more about the eventual fate of these drums.

Thank all of you for the great replies. I don't watch television as a general rule but when Antique Road Show is on, I generally watch. It is great to see someone bring in a yard sale item they purchased for $.15 ending up being worth $5000. What I consistently see is the expert appraisers give advice to have an antique piece, painting, or other item restored, especially if a finish or superficial blemish can be made to match what is already there or made to match the original.

I used to sell rare coins, PCGS and others, similarly graded. What investors were looking for in that instance was the grade or condition, not the history of the piece. Of course, with rare coins, restoration is pretty much an impossibility.

Thank you again for the great replies.